Ground Standards

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shedboy4life
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Re: Ground Standards

Postby shedboy4life » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:29 pm

I see Dalymounts redevelopment has taken a massive step forwards.

With Drogheda United’s new ground getting LCC backing it will only be ourselves and Finn Harps left with stadia that look like something from the 70’s


The bloody 1870’s!!!!!

I fear that if no moves are made soon we’ll be even further behind the rest in terms of facilities.


The natural balance of Irish football has returned for good.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby magarnagle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:52 pm

shedboy4life wrote:I see Dalymounts redevelopment has taken a massive step forwards.

With Drogheda United’s new ground getting LCC backing it will only be ourselves and Finn Harps left with stadia that look like something from the 70’s


The bloody 1870’s!!!!!

I fear that if no moves are made soon we’ll be even further behind the rest in terms of facilities.


I don't disagree with your assessment of Oriel but did the Dalymount redevelopment really take a massive step forward? To me it just looks like a company compiled a report based on development options and made a recommendation. No acceptance by DCC, no start date, no commitments. Something will happen eventually but doubt it'll be soon or look anything like the fancy video

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby mike » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:02 pm

I would have serious doubts if Drogs new stadium ever gets built, seems almost zero talk of this since it was announced.

Would be great to hear something announced about oriel after the cup final. Almost 4 months to the start of 2019 season, plenty of time to get a lot done, obviously not enough for new builds but you would think even if they allocated say 500k, imagine what this could do to improve the place.

New toilets. Roof both sides of the open seating both sides of the stand, better lighting for supporter areas, It wouldn't turn it into a 'job done' but it would be a start.

The new owners have said continuously they would look at gradual improvements. All of above meets that criteria.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby El Paso » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:12 pm

Dalymount was drawings on a presentation. They looked nice. That's it. The Richmond Park plans looked nice for the five minutes it took the government to say 'No'.

I don't understand people on this - every team we're comparing ourselves to is being handed a stadium, paid for effectively by the taxpayer either through local authorities and/or through the FAI. There isn't a single club in the country able to afford their own stadium under their own steam with the possible exception of Sligo.

Who do you think is going to pay for a redevelopment of Oriel?!?!?

If the FAI and Louth CoCo show no interest in funding the bulk of a redevelopment of Oriel Park or a new ground somewhere like the Relief Road then it's not going to happen. And neither entity has shown the slightest interest in helping us develop a ground. The FAI aren't going to hand over money for jackshit past what they've already committed to due to their debt. Far easier to chuck 100K cheques at junior clubs to keep Delaney in situ. Drogs will get their ground because Louth CoCo, the FAI and the HSE all want them out of United Park. Guaranteed the second phase of that development never starts. Louth CoCo have made it clear they're only interested in helping the Louth County Board.

The European prize money allows us to build a team of players that hopefully can progress in Europe and dominate our League. But it wouldn't cover a fraction of a total revamp of Oriel.

The most we can hope for from Peak 6 is that we get two covered terraces at either end of the ground and cosmetic improvements to the rest of the facilities. And be very clear any money Peak 6 spend on Oriel is going to be money loaded back onto the club in debt. So you'd better hope the playing budget doesn't suffer because if the music stops...

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell1 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:08 pm

I doubt LCC will contribute that much to Louth GAA as there is damn all free finances, maybe waive planning levies and install utility facilities which is a good chunk of cost though. They could do the same for us with fast tracking planning, not being ridiculous with their conditions and upgrade utility infrastructure in the area. It needs doing so the sensible thing would be to do it with work on Oriel in mind. The CEOc of councils really do drive their priorities as much as the elected members, certainly since 2014, so a change there could change focus and sporting amenities climb in importance and term in office limted now too. There are no shortage of town planners in the council that are supporters and at least 2, maybe 3 directors of service are Dundalk/Drogheda United supporters so ye never know.

I think Dalymount had taken a step forward as with DCC elected members/CEO are on side now and they do have the finances to be able to make the plans happen though it will be phased no matter how its presented. There is also the precedent of Tallaght with SDCC and that will include the 'what you have we want' attitude - rivalry is not just between Rovers and Bohs there but between the Local Authorities, mergers 4 years ago were to end that thinking and replication/waste of limited resources, its working for the likes of LCC but Dublin is a different beast.

Tne big thing imho that will hold back Peak6 from investing in Oriel Park is attendance. If we were selling out league games regularly then they would do something knowing that there is a return on investment. As it is they could spend 10mil on 6000 covered seats with whistles and bells but if there is only need for 3000 bar a handful of times a season then I cant see them putting money in in any significant amounts. Oriel Park isnt up to modern expected standards but it is functional for our current (basic) needs. The most that we can hope for is by and large cosmetic - a toilet block/open YDC match nights, a concreting over mud baths, locks on toilet doors, extending the roof on the shed and maybe some sort of barn like cover over the town and away terraces. The potential of Oriel that is often mentioned is probably the full utilisation of the YDC. Anything above or beyond these will be a pleasant bonus.

i dont think Peak6 will leverage the club with a load of debt and walk away, I have no real basis on that bar that I think that a genuine interest in the club and community is being fostered....wishful thinking...a favourite pet project...though of course I am completely blinkered by my own love of the club in that thinking. Im not so blinkered in thinking that we do need a lot of effort by us supporters to be organised in event of things going south, pushing supporter representation, and especially not getting complacent with ongoing success and keeping the numbers going to Oriel increasing year on year and not decline as is the tendancy in this league in the past.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby El Paso » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:30 am

The one thing about our attendances is something I noticed during the Euro games. The view of the pitch is terrible in all four corners unless you're at the wall. I was seated in line with the penalty spot at the Carrick End of the Shed and couldn't see about a quarter of the pitch. I think it's reasonable to assume that we'd increase the average by about a thousand if Oriel was improved as a spectator venue.

Also, as Dundalk become the dominant force on the pitch, I expect Peak6 to be more vocal about the League off it. They noticed, for example, how attendances tailed off during the ludicrous run of games in April/May.

As for your last point, I don't think Peak6 are going anywhere, certainly in the next five years. As long as we keep qualifying for Europe they'll be around. But I guarantee that any capital investment will be paid for by borrowing with the debt going on to the club. That's a given.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell1 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:07 am

I agree that on European nights the attendances could be increased well above the current seated capacity and even without altering existing seated areas. Why the concrete base behind the town goal didnt go back to the wall to give the option of temporary seating (behind both goals), it would surely pay for itself. But I take your point that an improved venue could improve attendances but domestically, without the necessity to be seated, the not knowing if there would be significantly increased average gates is why there is a reluctance to commit to improvements I feel.
On the last bit, one of the things that was said when the sale of the club first happened was at least let there be some legacy ground development done and the club left with if the worst was to happen and Peak6 did an Arkaga and walked off. The 'phoenix club' after at least would have something. It happened with the YDC in the end where a former owner left but the club had something to show for that period. It's not exactly the same as the club didnt fold but ye know what I mean. I neither think it will come to that or would I take a new stand while a club folds and reforms - its more than just how we play football that we differ from Cork football in that regard.
Again i agree that there will be no dipping in to pockets to bring Oriel up to spec. It will be a mix of sports capital grants, indebting the club, and maybe a % of European income if group stages were to happen. Peak6's real long term committment to the club will only be shown if ground improvements happens even if that is also committing the club to long term servicing of a loan. That would be the norm in most leagues where the governing associations fully back their leagues - brokering anything of a tv deal would be a help in that direction for our own league.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Johnnybegood33 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:31 am

I would expect Peak 6 , to make an announcement soon, about developing Oriel Park in to a Stadium for the future. It is said that they are involved in mega investments. So why would you acquire an investment & do nothing with it.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell1 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:30 am

The are doing something with their investment, making money back on it. We are back in the Champions League so its been immediate return at least of some of their initial outlay. I do hope that there is a positive announcement prior to season tickets going on sale for Christmas. That would add a chunk on to the uptake!

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby marmulade » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:49 pm

Peak6 explicitly stated that their focus was on the field, and not off it. Beyond fixing up the away section, which is a self-evident travesty, I don't expect any firm commitment from them on the rest of the ground.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby oldfogey » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:32 pm

It's interesting that people are coming to the realisation that putting up a roof in a few areas doesn't solve the fundamental problems within the ground. The ONLY people who can see the whole pitch are those in the stand, and only 40% have an uninterrupted view of both goals.

If you assume the perimeter fence has to stay then the first row of seats has to sit on a base at least level with the top of the fence. I've always felt that the site's footprint was too small to build an appropriate Cat 3 stadium, bounded as it is by

North - Houses and Petrol station
East - CIE owned lane
South - YDC
West - Council land between us and Grammar pitch.

The only way is to knock down the YDC and acquire the CIE land (all the way to the Ardee Rd) as well as Joe's Park.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby oldfogey » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:37 pm

Just a note on Dalymount. Nothing will happen until remedial work is carried out in Tolka Park first as - I assume - Bohs will move in there temporarily while Dalymount is rebuilt.

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Re: RE: Re: Ground Standards

Postby Sneachta » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:54 pm

Johnnybegood33 wrote:I would expect Peak 6 , to make an announcement soon, about developing Oriel Park in to a Stadium for the future. It is said that they are involved in mega investments. So why would you acquire an investment & do nothing with it.
You're a gas man Johnny

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Ezeikial » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:58 pm

oldfogey wrote:If you assume the perimeter fence has to stay then the first row of seats has to sit on a base at least level with the top of the fence. I've always felt that the site's footprint was too small to build an appropriate Cat 3 stadium


Irrespective of the amount of land available, I suspect that the chances of a category 3 stadium being developed at Oriel Park in your lifetime or mine (I intend to be around for some time yet) is pretty slim.

I remain hopeful that a more modest upgrading of facilities might happen in the short to medium term
Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby El Paso » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:12 pm

When Dalymount is done I see our bigger European ties being played there. True home of Irish football, so I’d much prefer it to Tallaght.

I think you can achieve enough improvement to Oriel for a comfortable match going experience for a max of about 5,000 people in the existing footprint. It wouldn’t meet Cat3, but fans’ enjoyment and comfort doesn’t require that. Agree with Oldfogey that it would involve raising the front row of seats and working back.


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