UEFA Europa League 2018-19

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seand
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UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby seand » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:07 pm

The last few seasons I’ve gleefully put up a “Champions League XXX season” thread with indecent haste at the end of the season. I’ve been a bit tardier with this Europa League thread primarily because the format is not entirely finalised. The structure of both CL and EL have been adjusted, primarily to allow more big league teams straight into the groups. As a result it’s a lot harder now for the champions of Ireland and the like to make the group stage. As a compensation all CL losers now get a shot at the EL (unlike 2015 and 2017 when we were done after losing to BATE and Rosenborg) and it’s now a lot easier for CL dropouts to make the group stage of the EL. The flipside of that is that it’s now considerably harder to get into the EL groups from the EL qualifiers- and no Irish club has come close to doing that anyway!

Working from the glory that is Bert Kassies’s website here’s a access list.
https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/ue ... t2018.html

There’s a new preliminary round in the EL, which we’ll bypass. We’ll certainly be seeded in the first qualifying round. I reckon we’ll be seeded in the second qualifying round, but not the third, where it get serious, with some really big hitters joining in. (And there’s a fourth round after that before the group stage.) Getting to the groups would involve winning 2 ties where you’d fancy your chances, then beating two serious clubs. It’s all a bit up in the air but it’s quite possible we’ll have to play qualifying round games on six successive weeks in July/August (as Pats did in 2011 and 2012).



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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby oldfogey » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:06 pm

seand wrote:The last few seasons I’ve gleefully put up a “Champions League XXX season” thread with indecent haste at the end of the season. I’ve been a bit tardier with this Europa League thread primarily because the format is not entirely finalised. The structure of both CL and EL have been adjusted, primarily to allow more big league teams straight into the groups. As a result it’s a lot harder now for the champions of Ireland and the like to make the group stage. As a compensation all CL losers now get a shot at the EL (unlike 2015 and 2017 when we were done after losing to BATE and Rosenborg) and it’s now a lot easier for CL dropouts to make the group stage of the EL. The flipside of that is that it’s now considerably harder to get into the EL groups from the EL qualifiers- and no Irish club has come close to doing that anyway!

Working from the glory that is Bert Kassies’s website here’s a access list.
https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/ue ... t2018.html

There’s a new preliminary round in the EL, which we’ll bypass. We’ll certainly be seeded in the first qualifying round. I reckon we’ll be seeded in the second qualifying round, but not the third, where it get serious, with some really big hitters joining in. (And there’s a fourth round after that before the group stage.) Getting to the groups would involve winning 2 ties where you’d fancy your chances, then beating two serious clubs. It’s all a bit up in the air but it’s quite possible we’ll have to play qualifying round games on six successive weeks in July/August (as Pats did in 2011 and 2012).


Not sure which is sadder, the fact that I cross checked the dates with the World Cup - or the fact that I subconciously knew there was a clash. Cork's QR1 1st Leg is on 10/11th July, with a World Cup semi-final on each night. Thankfully for us Thursday is a rest day. IF there is a long mid season break we may be 3 weeks without a game.
Last edited by oldfogey on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby thecaptain » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:07 pm

It's harder to get there alright but far as I heard the smaller leagues such as ourselves are pretty much guaranteed 2 rounds in Europe and the participation money for each round has gone up a fair bit as well?

Going by the below for this 2017/18 CL season:

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague ... 93261.html

Every domestic champion club that does not qualify for the group stage will receive a solidarity payment of €260,000 in addition to the amounts due for participation in the qualifying rounds (which only teams not qualifying for the group stage are entitled to): €220,000 (for the first qualifying round). €320,000 (for the second), €420,000 (for the third; for eliminated sides only). Clubs going out in the play-offs pick up their first and second round payments, plus the abovementioned €260,000 .


We'll be getting €580k from Uefa for the 2nd round of the CL and being Champions. Also we're entitled to Irelands pittance of a market share as far as I can tell as well, unless that was the 800k I read a while ago that was doled out to every other Premier Division club?

Next season will see those figures rise for the Carkies but they're also going up from the Europa League figures for this season too, plus the 2 rounds instead of one?

For the EL season 16/17 I found this and far as I know it was the same this season as this was for the previous cycle and the new deal kicks in from next season:

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/ne ... 98584.html

First qualifying round – €215,000
Second qualifying round – €225,000
Third qualifying round – €235,000
Play-offs – €245,000 (only eliminated clubs)


So even though we're in the EL we should get roughly the same for that as we got for being in the CL this season I'd say.

I think on the whole it'll work out better for the smaller nations such as ourselves even if it is a longer path to get to the group stage, increased participation/ prize money and a few more games/ rounds in Europe so no more one and done and that's Europe over for another year!
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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby seand » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:20 pm

The Wikipedia page is up now, which is handy. The final is in Baku, so we’ll have to drag ourselves to Azerbaijan for that one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%8 ... opa_League

As an indication of the relative weakness of the Europa League Dundalk are currently the joint highest seeds (with FH!) of the 20 teams already qualified for the first qualifying round. It looks like Rovers and Derry might not be seeded. The first qualifying round will (probably) be informally regionalised, after that it’s open draw geographically. So we would likely be grouped with teams from Scandinavia, the Baltics, Belarus, Iceland, Faroes, Northern Ireland and Luxembourg. The Welsh clubs will all have to negotiate the preliminary round first, so are less likely to be grouped with us. As we’ll be seeded we could also be grouped with preliminary round winners, which means we could be off somewhere new and exotic. (The preliminary round will include teams from Lithuania, Malta, Wales, the Faroes, Gibraltar, Andorra, San Marino and Kosovo.) We’ll avoid FH in the first round as we’ll both be seeded.
The Wikipedia page is great for surfing your way around the various leagues and cups of Europe. One of my favourite discoveries was that of the Liechtenstein Cup. All the Liechtenstein clubs play in the Swiss leagues, FC Vaduz usually in the top one or two division, the rest a lot further down. As they’ve no league of their own only the cup winners qualify for Europe. That’s usually Vaduz and they have a decent European record. This season Vaduz got a bye into the quarter-finals of the cup where they beat USV Eschen/Mauren II (i.e. USV Eschen/Mauren Reserves) 9-0. In the semi-final draw they could draw USV Eschen/Mauren ... or USV Eschen/Mauren III. In theory the third team of the third best club in a country with a population roughly the same as greater Dundalk is two games away from qualifying for Europe. Last year Vaduz qualified for the Europa League by winning their three cup matches 11-0, 18-0 and 5-1. The year before they won 11-0 in the final, and they've won 20 of the last 21 Leichtenstein cups.

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby seand » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:11 pm

Looking into this in a bit more detail I'm quite confident we'll be seeded in the second round (if we get through). Certainly more likely than not. Some massive teams joining in the second round incidentally, including the 7th team from England, Italy, Spain and Germany, so that could be Arsenal, Spurs, Villarreal, Schalke, AC Milan.... but we'd most likely avoid them in round two by being seeded

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby Dessie Gorman » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:03 pm

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41902664

This can be us!!! Again and again! Good story.

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby mike » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:34 pm

Sean. You are well in the know with this stuff.

When do you think the first round legs will be played this summer given the World Cup is on, and when will the draw be made. (I assume R1 & R2 will be made the same time ?)

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby Johnny Guitar » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:36 pm

According to wiki
Qualifying
First qualifying round 2 July 2018 19 July 2018 Second qualifying round 26 July 2018 2 August 2018

Draw date is.tbc

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_UEFA_Europa_League
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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby oldfogey » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:49 pm

mike wrote:Sean. You are well in the know with this stuff.

When do you think the first round legs will be played this summer given the World Cup is on, and when will the draw be made. (I assume R1 & R2 will be made the same time ?)


Here's the link to the main page for 2018-19. The link to the Calendar - which has all the dates - is in the second block down. Everything you could ever want to know about European football including coefficients, tracking qualified teams/league finish dates, seedings and breakdown of teams joining each round by country. That's just the tip of the iceberg. A veritable Santa's Grotto for Statisticians.

https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby Quayman » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:58 pm

Any idea what round we start in?
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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby oldfogey » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:00 am

Quayman wrote:Any idea what round we start in?


This link takes you to Bert Kassies website with everything you could ever want to know. Click on Access List and you can see where every country joins the CL and EL competitions. Ireland is #38 so looking across you will see we enter in Q1. It is a bit if an anomaly that, regardless of a teams (high) ranking coefficient, they enter the competition based on the country ranking, generally because the rest of the clubs are knocked out early. (eg Celtic and Scotland).

At the other end this also means that for Spain, England, Germany and Italy the top 4 go straight into CL group stages, and the Cup Winners and 5th place go straight to EL group stages, even if they have no history in Europe.

https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby seand » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:22 pm

It's near impossible to balance seedings fairly. All we can do is work on our own club coefficient. The good news for us is the move away from country coefficient boosting club coefficient. That means that the like of Aberdeen and Rangers now benefit less from Celtic's coefficient. Previously Aberdeen would have been ranked above Dundalk thanks to Celtic. This season they won't be. (Same with bate bumping up Belarus teams for example ). We need to consistently qualify, that's the key.

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby seand » Mon May 14, 2018 5:25 pm

Ok, the Europa League is starting to take shape. If you don't already worship at the altar of Bert Kassies you have to question what you're doing with your life.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2018.html

We will be seeded in the first two qualifying rounds. Rangers will also be seeded in round 1, so we won't be able to draw them, likewise Aberdeen. Cliftonville, Coleraine, Glenavon and Connahs Quay (from Wales) will be unseeded. It is likely that the first qualifying round will be informally regionally grouped. We'd be liable to be grouped with unseeded teams from NI, Wales, Iceland, Faroes, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Luxembourg (all qualifiers from Norway/Sweden/Belarus will be seeded). Of course we could also be grouped with one or more of the preliminary round winners which would bring Gibraltar, Malta, Andorra, San Marino and Kosovo into the equation. And there's no guarantee we'll be grouped in an exclusively 'northern' or 'northern plus preliminary winner' group anyway.

Some big hitters coming in in round 2.... notably Sevilla, but also Burnley, Alkmaar, Maccabi, RB Leipzig or Stuttgart, Nice or Bordeuax, Atalanta or AC Milan and a big team from Turkey. We'll avoid all those in round 2 though (if we get through!), as we'll be seeded.

If we get through two rounds we'd be unseeded in a nasty third round including Zenit, Feyenoord, Olympiakos and a host of other major players. There's a playoff round after the third round before the groups.

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby dundalkfc1903 » Tue May 15, 2018 9:55 am

seand wrote:Ok, the Europa League is starting to take shape. If you don't already worship at the altar of Bert Kassies you have to question what you're doing with your life.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2018.html

One thing I never found interesting is coefficients and all that stuff. Just wait for the draw and see what it brings!

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Re: UEFA Europa League 2018-19

Postby oldfogey » Sat May 26, 2018 5:36 pm

Not much left in terms of qualifications/seedings for QR1, just Slovenian (last game tomorrow) and Hungarian (2nd June) and Montenegran Cup (30/5). While the others will determine the last few places either side of the seeding line, the Slovenian will be of most interest. If Maribor stay second they will push us down to 10th seeds in QR1. If they win their league we stay 9th and that effectively makes us top seeds in one of the 9 (unofficially geographical) groups allocated by the computer. This "either/or" scenario could obviously matter in terms of ease of travel.


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