Official Takeover Thread

Discuss any news,views and opinions on Dundalk F.C.

Moderators: Colin Gallagher, Duffman

Post Reply
Martin Lawlor80
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:58 pm

Pepsi wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:29 pm
seand wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:19 pm
Pepsi wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:30 pm
My question is.....do the accounts reflect Euro money earned this year??? Surely nothing has been paid out as no compitition has ended. If that is the case and taking into account the investment in the YDC, it makes it all look a little different.
If Euro money is included in the loss, then questions have to be asked.

Any word on what Bill is supposed to say in the Argus with James Rogers about Oriel upgrades. Read somewhere on Twitter that they were readying some work....
I'm guessing Euro money for the 2018-19 season (Europa League v Levadia/AEK) would be reflected in 2019 accounts. That's a lot less that the 2019-20 Euro money, but still over 500K
If the loss is just over or around €500K I would be able to accept it as the club invested or claim to have invested in the YDC. That would suggest they are following a break even policy for the rest of the club......
Can someone explain this to me simply please, maybe by answering these 2 questions:
Roughly how much money did we earn from the last summer’s Euro campaign ie Riga/ Qarabag?
Is that money included in the accounts released yesterday?
Thanks

Pepsi
Reserves
Reserves
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:21 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by Pepsi » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:24 pm

Ezeikial wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:40 pm
Pepsi wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:48 pm
Event junkies are the ones who appear to maybe 2-3 games a year at Oriel, when the weather fits, the mates are up for it or they take the notion and cry the loudest when they dont get tickets for a key game which sells out.
Have you ever considered that people who go to 2-3 games a year might be easier to persuade to go say 10 times a year then someone who does not go to Oriel at all?

Slagging them off is unlikely to be effective.

However trying to understand and address the barriers for casual/occasional supporters might be helpful..............
The general statement made when questioning or trying to understand or address barriers for casual/occasional supporters is very simple. 90% will say the facilites are not up to it. However what they forget is that you can only do so much with 2-3K fans per home game. If the club were to invest everything into the ground and let the first team go to mid table...they would then claim it isnt worth going up to Oriel to watch an average team getting beat in a great stadium. It is a mentality problem, not only in Dundalk but Ireland wide.

User avatar
El Paso
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:33 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by El Paso » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:17 pm

The 6 million euro question is what happens when the last of the cash has been burned.
Will they continue to spend at current levels even if it means (gasp) spending some of their own money?
Will they cut their cloth but still finance a club that remains comfortably top-3 and qualifies for Europe every summer?
Will they conclude that the gamble on group stage qualification requires too much investment and cut and run?

I have no idea, but I doubt it's the first one. Old man Bill might have just enough interest in his new hobby that it's the second one. But obviously the fear is that it's the third. We all have to hope that the local lads running the club day to day are in a position to keep the show on the road on a break even basis if and when...

oldfogey
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:24 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by oldfogey » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:24 pm

Martin Lawlor80 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:58 pm
Pepsi wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:29 pm
seand wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:19 pm


I'm guessing Euro money for the 2018-19 season (Europa League v Levadia/AEK) would be reflected in 2019 accounts. That's a lot less that the 2019-20 Euro money, but still over 500K
If the loss is just over or around €500K I would be able to accept it as the club invested or claim to have invested in the YDC. That would suggest they are following a break even policy for the rest of the club......
Can someone explain this to me simply please, maybe by answering these 2 questions:
Roughly how much money did we earn from the last summer’s Euro campaign ie Riga/ Qarabag?
Is that money included in the accounts released yesterday?
Thanks

Normal practice is that income is recognised in the year in which it is earned - even if not yet received. 2018 accounts should have included €520k from the Europa League run (we were runners up in 2017). 2019 accounts should have included €1.2M as that would be the prize money for getting to EL QR3. That being the case, it does make the loss all the more remarkable. Still, abridged accounts tell us very little. We have no idea what costs/charges may have been put through.

Ezeikial
Club Captain
Club Captain
Posts: 7293
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by Ezeikial » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:43 am

El Paso wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:17 pm
The 6 million euro question is what happens when the last of the cash has been burned.
With the current Covid issues and possible reduced Euro cash prospects this season, that day may be dawning in the very near future.
Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

User avatar
Philly
Reserves
Reserves
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by Philly » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:16 pm

seand wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:00 pm
Investment in the YDC is a capital investment, is that even counted as a loss?
There's around 500k Fixed Assets capitalised on Balance Sheet (presumably YDC related) so this would not be incorporated into the trading loss. Cash down 1.4M year on year. 1.2M loss, 500k capital investment, so very clear they're just burning through the cash reserves. Other noticeable items is the 230k of Group Loans payable(presumably from Peak 6) on the Balance Sheet now.

Ezeikial
Club Captain
Club Captain
Posts: 7293
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by Ezeikial » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:40 pm

Philly wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:16 pm
seand wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:00 pm
Investment in the YDC is a capital investment, is that even counted as a loss?
There's around 500k Fixed Assets capitalised on Balance Sheet (presumably YDC related) so this would not be incorporated into the trading loss. Cash down 1.4M year on year. 1.2M loss, 500k capital investment, so very clear they're just burning through the cash reserves. Other noticeable items is the 230k of Group Loans payable(presumably from Peak 6) on the Balance Sheet now.
At that rate all the cash could be in ash by the end of this season?
Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

User avatar
El Paso
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:33 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by El Paso » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:40 pm

And, as expected, any money invested by Peak6 will be booked as a loan, rather than an increase in share capital. Might not ultimately matter, but if they pull the plug and expect some or all of it to be paid back it does.

oldfogey
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:24 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by oldfogey » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:18 pm

El Paso wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:40 pm
And, as expected, any money invested by Peak6 will be booked as a loan, rather than an increase in share capital. Might not ultimately matter, but if they pull the plug and expect some or all of it to be paid back it does.
Any funds used to support the playing budget have to be booked as income in order to satisfy the Salary Cost Protocol. (Player & Management no greater than 65% of income. Your budget has to reflect this as well. This is why some ckub budgets are rejected first time around on the basis that income projections are too optimistic. For ourselves we can put in minimum UEFA prize money for CL/EL of €800k plus realistic income & expenditure for 2 rounds. We can't assume much in the way of the cup as we could get drawn away to a non league side where we get knocked out and our share of the gate doesn't cover travel costs. And we can only allow LOI prize money for finishing last. Clubs still nearly go to the wall. Imagine if Licensing wasn't tough.

User avatar
El Paso
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:33 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by El Paso » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:33 pm

I'm not sure what your point is? Increasing share capital is a form of income.

oldfogey
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:24 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by oldfogey » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:55 pm

I'm going to assume you actually know how a set of accounts works and you're just trolling me.

User avatar
El Paso
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:33 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by El Paso » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:43 am

I was wondering why you responded to a point about the owners loaning the club that they own money versus increasing share capital, by talking about salary cost protocols. If it is the case that money from the owners must be a loan and not capital in order to meet SCP requirements, then colour me surprised.

oldfogey
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:24 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by oldfogey » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:01 pm

If I misunderstood your point I apologise. The main theme of this thread has been about 2019 and the substantial losses incurred and I took your comment in the context of propping up large playing budgets. I made the point about SCP as a lot of posters here believe that you can support operating losses with a loan. You can with businesses generally, but not for licensing purposes. As Peak6 can supply anything we need, there would be little point in making the balance sheet look stronger to potential lenders.

User avatar
El Paso
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:33 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by El Paso » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:18 pm

Ah I don’t need an apology! It was a random thought about one aspect of Peak6’s ownership that the accounts expose.

User avatar
El Paso
1st Team Regular
1st Team Regular
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:33 pm

Re: Official Takeover Thread

Post by El Paso » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:09 am

So the owners offered to buy the FAI's share of the Aviva to bail out the association?!

Head-spinning stuff. Absolutely hilarious that it has come to this. Historically clubs have been too weak to publicly take on the FAI. We have owners that (good or bad) could buy and sell the FAI with pocket change. The switch in power dynamic is amazing to watch.

Presumably this Aviva plan didn't include Dundalk Franchise Club being moved to D4, NFL-style!!

Post Reply