The Three Wise Men.

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Ezeikial
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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Ezeikial » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:42 pm

DundalkChampions wrote:
Ezeikial wrote:Mike Treacy being quoted by Gavin on Twitter

I'm confused by the claim of working tirelessly to outline our vision for the future of the club to supporters in recent weeks

My perception was that the communication from the club in recent weeks was poor, bordering on pathetic. I assumed that there was good reasons for this radio silence, but apparently MT sees it differently
Gavin McLaughlin
‏@DundalkSport

Mike Treacy: “We are delighted to confirm our new coaching structure. The board recognise that continuity is crucial at the football club, given the levels of success achieved in recent seasons."

"We are convinced that in Vinny, Ruaidhri and John we have a structure in place which will ensure we continue to build upon the success of recent seasons, and achieve the club’s objectives on the pitch."

"We appreciate the patience of our supporters in recent weeks as we have worked tirelessly to outline our vision for the future of the club, and assure everyone we are excited about the future."

https://twitter.com/DundalkSport/status ... 8105230336
What did you want the club to do? State they wanted Vinny and Gill and were awaiting FAI clearance.

What happens then if the FAI refused this? Invite applications form people who would have known they were not first choice to take over?

The club cant announce things until they are confirmed (look at the Sheppard situaution last season, that was leaked)

It seems that you may have misread my post or else misunderstood the point.

I was not looking for the club to make any statements (although there are loads of other ways to keep supporters on-board) - I expressed my reservations around the "working tirelessly to outline our vision" quote attributed to Mike Treacy.


Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

dell1
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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by dell1 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:16 pm

Tbf the club has outlined very little in terms of their vision. They keep talking about their vision but that vision must be a secret(except for the make lots of money stuff). The only confirmed vision is that they will invest in the first team then maybe with onging Europen success there might be ground improvements but there might not. I'm sure they have a vision and the prep work takes time to do and they are not yet a year at the club but they have outlined very little that isnt a whole load of 'saying nothing when saying lots' as with MB in the Argus recently.

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by DundalkChampions » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:17 pm

Ezeikial wrote:
DundalkChampions wrote:
Ezeikial wrote:Mike Treacy being quoted by Gavin on Twitter

I'm confused by the claim of working tirelessly to outline our vision for the future of the club to supporters in recent weeks

My perception was that the communication from the club in recent weeks was poor, bordering on pathetic. I assumed that there was good reasons for this radio silence, but apparently MT sees it differently
What did you want the club to do? State they wanted Vinny and Gill and were awaiting FAI clearance.

What happens then if the FAI refused this? Invite applications form people who would have known they were not first choice to take over?

The club cant announce things until they are confirmed (look at the Sheppard situaution last season, that was leaked)

It seems that you may have misread my post or else misunderstood the point.

I was not looking for the club to make any statements (although there are loads of other ways to keep supporters on-board) - I expressed my reservations around the "working tirelessly to outline our vision" quote attributed to Mike Treacy.
How do you know they are not currently working on something and will annouce it when they have it finialsed or enough info is available to give out to the public?

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Ezeikial » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:24 pm

DundalkChampions wrote: How do you know they are not currently working on something and will annouce it when they have it finialsed or enough info is available to give out to the public?
I sincerely hope they are and similarly assume they will make more announcements in due course.
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DundalkChampions
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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by DundalkChampions » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:39 pm

So basically you were moaning about something you dont know about!

Going by your posts on foot.ie making Dundalk fans look like clowns (every 2nd post of yours is about Rovers) il just ignore from now on

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Ezeikial » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:05 pm

DundalkChampions wrote:So basically you were moaning about something you dont know about!

Going by your posts on foot.ie making Dundalk fans look like clowns (every 2nd post of yours is about Rovers) il just ignore from now on
Sometimes a high level of articulation and reasoning is so convincing that it renders any response pointless

You seem to manage the same result with a different approach
Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Erimurph » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:18 pm

Louth4sam wrote:
Johnnybegood33 wrote:Gill - Perth - Higgins. Very experienced , all at there Peak & they get on very well , it’s a runner for me.
Can you please list off their relevant experience that you feel makes them 'very experienced'
Unreal. Gill leading us to league victory twice, Perth being Kenny’s sidekick for the last 5 years and Higgins’ experience as a player and knows Kenny’s structure makes them all very experienced

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:34 pm

Ezeikial wrote:
Martin Lawlor80 wrote:
“Working tirelessly to outline our vision for the future of the club” could mean the board getting the correct management structure in place. Promoting from within is the vision . A number of obstacles made that vision challenging so they the club worked tirelessly to overcome them. MT doesn’t mention anything regarding communication. In fact he thanks the fans for their patience which leads me to believe he knows there has been some frustration among supporters since SK left.
Your agility to give it that slant is impressive if implausible.

"Outline our vision" is a tall order without communication of some sort. Obviously this visionary stuff excludes the great unwashed.

At best its poorly worded, but it smacks of disingenuous spin.
I don’t think it’s implausible at all and neither do a number of other fans judging by their posts on this thread.
I believe the owners came to OP a short number of months ago and outlined their vision in the YDC. I presume it hasn’t changed. I don’t expect a monthly newsletter like a primary school. I can’t see the glazers, abramovich etc doing so either and yet MT has been very visible and very approachable in OP during the season.

You have been consistently critical of the club regarding communication. Nobody is saying you are not entitled to your opinion but I do think your immediate focus on communication regarding a press release about the new management will be seen by some as ‘moaning’. To call what MT says as ‘bullshit’ and ‘disingenuous spin’ is churlish and petty.
But that’s only my opinion.

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Wexford White » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:56 pm

I wish the season would kick off.............................
The Back of the Wall

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Louth4sam » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:28 pm

Erimurph wrote:
Louth4sam wrote:
Johnnybegood33 wrote:Gill - Perth - Higgins. Very experienced , all at there Peak & they get on very well , it’s a runner for me.
Can you please list off their relevant experience that you feel makes them 'very experienced'
Unreal. Gill leading us to league victory twice, Perth being Kenny’s sidekick for the last 5 years and Higgins’ experience as a player and knows Kenny’s structure makes them all very experienced
Unreal indeed. Not even getting basic facts right kinda undermines the rest of your post. Gill won the first division once, Rovers won it the other year we were in the playoff.
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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Ezeikial » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:42 pm

Martin Lawlor80 wrote: I don’t think it’s implausible at all and neither do a number of other fans judging by their posts on this thread.
I believe the owners came to OP a short number of months ago and outlined their vision in the YDC. I presume it hasn’t changed. I don’t expect a monthly newsletter like a primary school. I can’t see the glazers, abramovich etc doing so either and yet MT has been very visible and very approachable in OP during the season.
Amid the ridiculous references to primary school newsletters and the Glazers, you may actually be hitting at some interesting stuff here

1. What is the Peak6 vision and has it changed since Jan/Feb 2018?

You say that you presume the vision outlined in the YDC in early Feb of last year hasn't changed, but that is at odds with what has been reportedly said by Mike Treacy and Mal Brannigan in interviews since then. Here is a small selection :

Dundalk owners drop big Oriel Park hint
The Argus 24 July 2018 James Rogers
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/the ... 3457529116

CEO hints at home improvements
The Argus 18 Sept 2018 James Rogers
While not giving much away, he did suggest that the attitude of Peak6 owners had changed from the start of the year
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/the ... 7249343213

CEO wants club performing off the field too
The Argus 29 Sept 2018 James Rogers
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/ar ... 49098.html

Dundalk set Champions League group stage target
Irish Independent 6 June 2018 Daniel McDonnell
The American chairman of Dundalk, Mike Treacy, has asserted that his vision for the Louth club involves qualification for the group stages of the Champions League.

But he has assured supporters that there are plans in the pipeline to improve the dated facilities at Oriel Park with Treacy acknowledging that the unpopular section for away supporters is the 'worst in the league.
'
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer ... 81640.html

2. Does the club intend to increase the investment in new players in January to challenge for CL group stages?

The vision to target qualification for the group stages of the Champions League presumably is one that is unaltered, but there has hardly been significant player investment to date

Based on what Vinny Perth said recently, we should only expect two new additions to the current squad
The squad for the coming season is, he says, largely complete although he says he would like to add a couple of players as “it is not as deep as people seem to think it is.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer ... -1.3745374
Martin Lawlor80 wrote:
You have been consistently critical of the club regarding communication. Nobody is saying you are not entitled to your opinion but I do think your immediate focus on communication regarding a press release about the new management will be seen by some as ‘moaning’. To call what MT says as ‘bullshit’ and ‘disingenuous spin’ is churlish and petty.
But that’s only my opinion.
I have been fulsome in my praise for the club board, volunteers and staff on a regular basis, but I also am willing to be critical where I see it as being warranted.

Mike Treacy comments about “Working tirelessly to outline our vision for the future of the club” can be interpreted in many ways, but it is certainly fair to question the apparent contradiction in it, when you consider the paucity of communication to fans and the mixed messages via the media interviews outlined above.

You may well be right to describe my comments re 'bullshit' and 'disingenuous spin' as churlish, even if that is partly in frustration with posters who cannot even consider any views that conflict with their perception of a club who can do no wrong.

The current vision by the investors for the club is not clear - either in terms of CL ambitions or infrastructure improvements - if MT believes that he has been working tirelessly to outline them it must be to someone other than to supporters
Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by oldfogey » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:23 am

Obviously the removal of the 9% VAT rate in the hospitality and restaurant sector has done little to reduce people's coffee consumption. Anyone else think this has gotten out of control?

With respect, can I suggest the combatants stay away from this thread for 24 hours and rethink their approach to the subject (as distinct from each other)

And on that point, why do we have 3 threads?

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The Three Wise Men

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by dundalkfc1903 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:57 am

Wexford White wrote:I wish the season would kick off.............................
Amen. Hopefully there will be a preseason game or two in Oriel to sink our teeth into soon.

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by dell1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:53 pm

In general people should be able to offer their opinions here, positive or negative, without their points being dismissed out of hand and especially without replies being personal in nature. This isnt the Cork forum where members get banned for not towing the party line or indulge in childish namecalling. If someone disagrees with a post then give a rationale as to why there is disagreement. The club isnt infallible and criticism can actuallly help to improve things. I see no relevance here either as to what is posted by anyone on other fora!

I dont always agree with Ezeikial, but MT saying that the club is “Working tirelessly to outline our vision for the future of the club”. I havent heard too much outlined to back up that comment bar winning leagues, progressing in Europe (getting return on investment) but isnt that the vision of every club!? We have had soundbites on the potential of Oriel and improvements being made but no obvious progress. That is not to say there isnt any progress just that its not being communicated.

If anything the club is quieter now that it ever has been and there have been many times that this became a major issue for some fans. There was even a position on the board for a supporter liason to improve communication. I personally dont feel the need to know everything that is going on behind the scenes of the club and am willing to trust that there are plans being put together on improving all aspects of the club. I was disappointed to hear about improvements to Oriel and only to find that they are first tem related facilities and maybe better utilisation of the YDC.

I do think the club should give a more detailed statement to fans as I think it could boost season tickets sales for example. It wouldnt take much to say what the consultant process on the future of Oriel/New ground came up with. What the meetings with LCC were about and how they went. What they will actually do in the short term off the field with Oriel, what they doing with underage structures et al. It is time for a proper meeting with fans imo where questions can be asked as there seems to be a rise in general disgruntlement - considering we have a new coaching team sorted, 'new' sponsor, and are double winners. Im sure the club know the issues fans have so simply assuring people that there will at least be painting done....a huge climb down from hoping for a new stand.

Having something like this done by the club would be great -
http://www.crusadersfc.com/upload/Crusa ... 0Final.pdf
Last edited by dell1 on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Three Wise Men.

Post by Robbiedundalk2 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:47 am

dell1 wrote:In general people should be able to offer their opinions here, positive or negative, without their points being dismissed out of hand and especially without replies being personal in nature. This isnt the Cork forum where members get banned for not towing the party line or indulge in childish namecalling. If someone disagrees with a post then give a rationale as to why there is disagree agreement. The club isnt infallible and criticism can actuallly help to improve things. I see no relevance here either as to what is posted by anyone on other fora!

I dont always agree with Ezeikial, but MT saying that the club is “Working tirelessly to outline our vision for the future of the club”. I havent heard too much outlined to back up that comment bar winning leagues, progressing in Europe (getting return on investment) but isnt that the vision of every club!? We have had soundbites on the potential of Oriel and improvements being made but no obvious progress. That is not to say there isnt any progress just that its not being communicated.

If anything the club is quieter now that it ever has been and there have been many times that this became a major issue for some fans. There was even a position on the board for a supporter liason to improve communication. I personally dont feel the need to know everything that is going on behind the scenes of the club and am willing to trust that there are plans being put together on improving all aspects of the club. I was disappointed to hear about improvements to Oriel only to find that they are first tem related facilities and maybe better utilisation of the YDC.

I do think the club should give a more detailed statement to fans as I think it could boos season tickets sales for example. It would take much to say what the consultant process on the future of Oriel/New ground came uo with. What the meetings with LCC were about and how they went. What they will actually do in the short term off the field with Oriel, what they doing with underage structures et al. It is time for a proper meeting with fans imo where questions can be asked as there seems to be a rise in general disgruntlement - considering we have a new coaching team sorted, 'new' sponsor, and are double winners. Im sure the club know the issues fans have so simply assuring people that there will be painting done....a huge climb down from hoping for a new stand.

Having something like this done by the club would be great -
http://www.crusadersfc.com/upload/Crusa ... 0Final.pdf
I have only scanned it but is an impressive professional document and it does instill confidence and clearly defines the vision for fans. I think the club are doing many similar initiatives to embrace the local community and beyond but this would be a good way to encapsulate and expand on what they are doing and package it for fans. Am sure Peak 6 would have envisaged focusing on more of these things in this offseason but obviously other matters have taken priority, manager, sponsor, new unorthodox team management structure and CEO, all in a short period of time, plus having to manage this remotedly. I think they have done a good job in the circumstances. Next on the agenda has to be the ground. Anyone hear anything about any development work done at the YDC?

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