Ground Standards

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magarnagle
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Re: Ground Standards

Postby magarnagle » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:14 am

Ezeikial wrote:
magarnagle wrote:
Ezeikial wrote:
To be fair, whether the Kelleher plan comes to fruition or not, has little bearing on what L4S expressed


You'll have to explain that one to me



My reading of what L4S said was that fans of other clubs were discussing specific plans for stadium upgrades or even new developments (Tallaght, Brandywell, Finn Harps, Dalymount, and now St Pats) while we are talking about the famous puddle fix as being the most significant development at Oriel Park.

Whether the Kelleher / St Pats plan becomes a reality or not, does not change the fact that we appear stuck without any development or upgrade stadium plans


Fair enough, personally I'd rather be discussing realistic proposals. Only 2 of the above mentioned have come to fruition and really only the Brandywell stayed somewhat to its timeliness but not original plans.

Maybe Pats plan will get off the ground at some stage but I'd put my house on it not being 12k, all covered and joined. Finally, how long has Kelleher owned Pats?



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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Ezeikial » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:25 am

magarnagle wrote:
Ezeikial wrote:
magarnagle wrote:
You'll have to explain that one to me



My reading of what L4S said was that fans of other clubs were discussing specific plans for stadium upgrades or even new developments (Tallaght, Brandywell, Finn Harps, Dalymount, and now St Pats) while we are talking about the famous puddle fix as being the most significant development at Oriel Park.

Whether the Kelleher / St Pats plan becomes a reality or not, does not change the fact that we appear stuck without any development or upgrade stadium plans


Fair enough, personally I'd rather be discussing realistic proposals. Only 2 of the above mentioned have come to fruition and really only the Brandywell stayed somewhat to its timeliness but not original plans.

Maybe Pats plan will get off the ground at some stage but I'd put my house on it not being 12k, all covered and joined. Finally, how long has Kelleher owned Pats?


We would all like to be discussing realistic proposals, the reality is there is nothing to discuss except the puddle fix.

Planning and funding applications can change initial plans for any major project, but that is a pretty lame reason for accepting that doing nothing with Oriel Park is OK. Kicking the can down the road may be necessary by the new owners but it does not inspire any confidence that even basic upgrades such as toilets are seen as important

The deafening roars of supporters defending the inactivity of the previous regime on stadium upgrades or maintenance was one of the reasons why the puddle still existed at the start of 2018

I am not advocating for an immediate new multi million euro stadium, but flushing and clean toilets would be a good start
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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Fwats » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:41 am

The ground does clearly need improvement but the investment could be very risky from an investors perspective so I can't see any major development in the short term. It was mentioned earlier that a new ground could help increase average attendance by 1000 and while this could well be true, decent facilities will entice those who might not ordinarily come, it is not enough to keep them coming. The latest podcast from greatest league in the world is a really interesting listen particularly the bohs approach with match day experience and community engagement. It is a slow burner and can't compete with the increased attendance that comes from challenging at the top but arguably it is more sustained. Even with continued success the attendance starts to dip unless there is a real sense of this being your club and not just a firework display that you start to lose interest in. We are flying now but what would our attendance be after a few years finishing 4-8th? I think we could guess. I would like to see the club focusing more on this aspect in the short term and hopefully with continued on field success and some further European runs the money will be there to finance badly needed ground development. If the match day experience and sense of community is there already then you are on a winner already.
Plus 1 for railed seating terrace behind town end goals by the way.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Fwats » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:44 am

Agreed that money could and should be spent improving existing facilities because lack of decent toilets and walking in mud does nothing to encourage new fans. Decent start with the puddle but plenty more to do.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby mike » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:57 am

El Paso wrote:I have split opinions about this. I'm convinced that quite a nice job could be done in Oriel with not a lot of money, which could attract enough people to get our average attendances up by about 1,000. The main stand could easily be extended to the length of the pitch with good toilets and so on, the Shed side could be extended the length of the pitch too and covered terracing put in at the Town End. So it's very frustrating.

On the flip side I'm getting bored of comparisons to other clubs. With the exception of Sligo, NONE of the other so called big clubs have done a thing to the grounds they're in under their own steam.

Rovers have a nice ground because the Council built them one after 20 years of squatting.
Cork have a ground because the FAI rent them one after they went bust stiffing the builders in their own ground.
Derry have a nice ground because Derry City Council bought it and developed it for them.
Bohs will have a nice ground because Dublin City Council bought it and will develop it for them.
Limerick EDP paid for the upgrade to Markets Field.
Waterford moved to the RSC because the Council developed it for them.
Galway rent their ground from the FAI through the Galway Football Association.

I'd love to see Pat's do what they're talking about - but I wouldn't be one bit surprised to see them shipped out to Tallaght for a good few seasons while the new ground is the last thing to be built in this plan.


Another key point here is the costs per month, I heard before that its something like 6 or 7k a month for Rovers, and although I've heard no figures from Cork, its well documented that it takes up a significant part of their monthly budget so I`d be guessing at least 5k maybe per month, maybe more. I know DFC pay a fee to the Casey Trust for the lease but I understand this is quite a small figure in comparisons. Rovers and Cork will argue they have top class facilities though and that's correct, but its not free, plus SDCC have a clause, miss 2-3 or more months and could be evicted (which they were close to a few years back)

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby oldfogey » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:55 pm

Anyone consider the possibility that some potential signings might have been put off by the state of the facilities?

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby mike » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:32 pm

I wouldn't have thought so, as remember for players what they see is actually a little different compared to fans. Cleary mentioned he was more than happy, esp with the morning training, main pitch for home games, the away one they can use, hot food at lunch with a chef coming in and the gym in the afternoon. Negatives though, one article in the programme said the players had to put their coats on to eat ! as it is almost impossible to heat the place, and the dressing rooms etc prob could do with extending / improvements.

Now the look of the place, that wont go away as at first glance its fairly grim, the old place still has a decent atmosphere though when it gets going, but supporters will generally only view any improvement to any ground with a new stand and shiny seats. I still would prefer to hear things from new owners about gradual improvements and longer term look at things than promising a brand new stadium. The list of things to improve in oriel is long, and these have been left far too long, so it wont improve overnight.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby transitvan74 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:17 pm

if new owners are planning to put new fast filling taps in bar to further reduce staff ,wouldnt be holding my breath on them building a new stand.well known oriel was running on skeleton staff over the last few years .fact they are looking to cut staff worrying to say the least can only see it running into further disrepair unfortunately

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Ezeikial » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:52 pm

transitvan74 wrote:if new owners are planning to put new fast filling taps in bar to further reduce staff ,wouldnt be holding my breath on them building a new stand.well known oriel was running on skeleton staff over the last few years .fact they are looking to cut staff worrying to say the least can only see it running into further disrepair unfortunately


The correlation between fast filling beer taps and new infrastructure is lost on me. If you are saying that there is a reduction in ground maintence that would certainly be a concern.

Have you a vested interest in bar employees?
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Re: Ground Standards

Postby DundalkChampions » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:58 pm

Ezeikial wrote:
transitvan74 wrote:if new owners are planning to put new fast filling taps in bar to further reduce staff ,wouldnt be holding my breath on them building a new stand.well known oriel was running on skeleton staff over the last few years .fact they are looking to cut staff worrying to say the least can only see it running into further disrepair unfortunately


The correlation between fast filling beer taps and new infrastructure is lost on me. If you are saying that there is a reduction in ground maintence that would certainly be a concern.

Have you a vested interest in bar employees?


The club want to get pints poured quicker as not to have such big q's at the bar on match nights before/half time (especially) after games is a good thing.

2 messages on the forum and 2 complaining about the bar/pints/staff.

The other night V Rovers, was same amount of bar staff as their was any other game (6)

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby transitvan74 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:36 pm

no vested interest in employees or new owners at oriel park ,go to oriel to support the team ,seen the text that was sent to a work colleague of mine that some bar staff was being let go/surplus to requirements as the plan is to put quick filling taps in to replace staff as a money saving measure (sent in c/o mal brannigan) only for when a member of the public had to be called behind the bar at a recent match did they realise it was a non runner and called the two staff back to work for bohs match as for ground staff ,think that all speaks for itself my point being if they are willing to cut staff wre clearly needed which is only one night fornightly give or take ,i cant personally see them doing anything to much with grounds etc

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:18 pm

Maybe the books need some balancing!? With or without money in the bank maybe the day to day costs of running the club is probably at a significant loss currently. If this is the case and we know that they are not going to cut the team budget we could be lucky as it is just for that. Either that or maybe be like Shamrock Rovers after their EL winnings and them needing sponsor hand outs as part of a stealth takeover from fan ownership, running at a significant loss with EL earnings gone.

At least when they saw that things werent working at the bar they reversed their decision. I think there is a lot to be done at Dundalk FC to improve the club before the issue of a new ground is touched starting by getting the club running in a way that doesnt ( as would be likely under previous owners too) have to dip in to cash reserves to make ends meet. It may not be completely possible with euro winnings but narrowing the gap as much as possible doesnt necessarily indicate negative intentions of the owners.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Johnnybegood33 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:01 pm

The ground is a huge embarrassment , especially for a great team that are now top , I feel sorry for Kenny & the players , not for the supporters , how seem happy enough with the pathetic facilities in Oriel for as long as I can remember , and seemed to accept it with out saying boo.
I dont expect anything to be done with it , anytime soon . I use to have a pipe dream that we would have a state of the art stadium , especially after all the European prize money , FAI backing , Louth County Council , new billionaire owners etc . but not a dickie. It’s great to have witnessed Kenny on this great era for Dundalk FC. Not going to Tallaght for home games.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby niall_hearty2000 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:58 pm

Of course none of us are happy with the present state of oriel park Ffs the state of the home toilets never mind the away ones are nothing short of disgraceful. It isn't a welcoming stadium and is dilapidated since I started coming up in the mid 70's. But what the bloody he'll do you want the supporters to do? There is simply nothing we can do. Stop attending games is the only course of action we could possibly take which might make owners sit up and take notice, but equally the only ones we would then be hurting is ourselves. Bottom line is that like all the previous owners, if they don't want to invest in the infrastructure then there is simply nothing we can do except to suck it up and get on with things. Unless you have a better suggestion Johnnybegood??
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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Ezeikial » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:53 am

niall_hearty2000 wrote:. But what the bloody he'll do you want the supporters to do? There is simply nothing we can do.



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Or if you think you cannot
You are right

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