Ground Standards

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marmulade
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Re: Ground Standards

Postby marmulade » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:59 pm

Why would Harps need a 5600 capacity ground?

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Sneachta » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:43 pm

They are aiming big. Fair play to them

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby marmulade » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:12 pm

Ballybofey-Stranorlar, a census town, had a population of 4,852 in the 2016.


If every man, woman, and child in these two, adjacent towns came to a Finn Harps game, they still wouldn't fill the ground. That is madness. Mind you, it's probably a ploy, as An Bord Planala will inevitably refuse permission until they slash the size, resulting in a decent 2k seater, which might be appropriate. That said, we'll still be watching games where the attendance is 500, and a few dogs, but we'll all be sitting comfortably.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Sneachta » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:07 am

A bit disingenuous to the rest of the Finn harps fans/potential fans from around the rest of Donegal

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell1 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:52 pm

El Paso wrote:Finn Harp. €12 million for a capacity of 5600 on a greenfield site, which seems to be all in one stand judging by the image on the story.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/10 ... m-project/

Whatever chance we have of modest improvements for around 3 million where a return on investment is realistic I doubt Peak6 would ever look to plow that much in, even if it was all borrowed against the club.


The main stand is 2000 seats and then behind goal terracing. The side opposite, down the line a stnd is planned to bring things up to 5600. 12m is the figure being put on the project but when it involves a land swap that figure is a bit arbitrary. Its Tallaght mark 2 and they have hopes that Donegal CC might come on board after the first grant was recieved in 2007/8. They have also now changed the plans so submissions are from scratch, 2021 is ambitious for as long as the builder involved remains involved.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby McNultys Discopants » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:45 am

dell1 wrote:
El Paso wrote:Finn Harp. €12 million for a capacity of 5600 on a greenfield site, which seems to be all in one stand judging by the image on the story.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/10 ... m-project/

Whatever chance we have of modest improvements for around 3 million where a return on investment is realistic I doubt Peak6 would ever look to plow that much in, even if it was all borrowed against the club.


The main stand is 2000 seats and then behind goal terracing. The side opposite, down the line a stnd is planned to bring things up to 5600. 12m is the figure being put on the project but when it involves a land swap that figure is a bit arbitrary. Its Tallaght mark 2 and they have hopes that Donegal CC might come on board after the first grant was recieved in 2007/8. They have also now changed the plans so submissions are from scratch, 2021 is ambitious for as long as the builder involved remains involved.


Can anyone honestly say they think this project will get completed? Don't see it myself.

However if they get even the one stand they started up it'll be an improvement and probably one of better stadiums in the league. Have to say the new Dalymount plans are very sexy. Would love to have an ambition of something like that for Oriel in the long term.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell1 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:13 am

Watching back the RTE coverage and the interview with Mike Tracey all seemed to focus on the YDC when asked about plans on Oriel. It does make sense that the most is made of what is already there before anything else. We are not asking for a whole lot in the short term, Niall just wants locks on toilet doors, we all want a lick of paint the side of the stand, Mike is looking for the shed roof to be extended the length of that terrace. My bugbear is the way things have been 'stored' behind the away terrace.

To be a bit more positive about Oriel Park and what has been done over the last number of years after serious neglect and much largely due to Gerry Matthews!! In no particular order there has been the tarmacing of the concourse in to the ground + the laneway for away fans, recent surface inside the entry to the town terrace, toilet block behind home terrace, concrete bay behind the town goal, new roof on the stand, new glass panels at the side of the stand, new electrics in the stand, new terracing shedside and installation of seats + new roofed area that side also, New roof over the lilywhite lounge, 2000 approx seats installed which without there would be no European football in Oriel at all! Areas of the stand brought up to health and safety standards with steps, handrails, and lighting improved. Under the stand the merchandising shop and improved layout done. McGuill Bar improved. Is it 2 or 3 pitches installed by now, area behind the Carrick goal improved with proper perimeter wall getting rid of that awful looking corregated sheeting, that area surfaced, YDC built.

All of this if it were done directly out of one persons pocket in a planned rather than piecemeal manner would probably have little change out of €2mil(pitches and YDC being the main cost).
Im not saying that we should accept things as they are just that an old ground that has been neglected for so long can suck up money in improvements and it not be really noticed. With that bit of catch up done on the ground getting some of the basics up to scratch there isnt the same level of money needed to get the place acceptable to fans in the absence of a major project.

The tidy up stuff would cost no more than 20k imo. The extending of the cover at the shed and home and awaty terraces couldnt be 100k? Toilets at the rear of the away terrace cant cost any more than 10k and would tidy that mess up nicely. Not such cost that would feel like a wate when demolished for a new stand etc, especially if we are waiting for longer than a season or 2 for a concrete plan (pardon the pun) on a proper ground development. Random thoughts on the place early morning after a fine night on the pitch. ;p
Last edited by dell1 on Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Johnnybegood33 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:58 am

The ground needs to be brought up to a Euro standard , so that Dundalk fans can watch European matches in Oriel Park. Not have to travel to Dublin & watch games in Shamrock Rovers ground. The first thing needed to be done is knock down the main stand & build one the length of the pitch.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby Ezeikial » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:48 am

Just when a sensible discussion looked like it could emerge,.........
Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby oldfogey » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:34 am

dell1 wrote:All of this if it were done directly out of one persons pocket in a planned rather than piecemeal manner would probably have little change out of €2mil(pitches and YDC being the main cost).


The original grant awarded was more than €2M. Then came the crash and club ended up with less than a quarter of that. I'm agreeing with you 100%, we should appreciate what was done, it just cost more than people realise.

I was quite disappointed with Mike Treacy's interview. 12 months on (they had already done their homework by this time last year), they are still looking into various options. The Dalymount project is more advanced than ourselves and they are 4 years away from a first game. Were they waiting to see if Stephen Kenny would deliver? If tarting up the YDC is all they do after we steamrollered the opposition and look a good bet for the double, what would they have done for runners up spot?

The YDC already has a state of the art gym (Vinnie Perth's words, not mine), changing rooms with showers, and meeting rooms. SK has repeatedly stated that OP is not good enough, thats where the priority is if they want a contract extension. He realises the value of a regular solid fan base and in maintaining that connection with the town as supporters and players feed off each others energy. Last night's crowd of 3,871 was very disappointing, for what was at stake ie trophy presentation, points record, individual points scoring record. They will all be in the AVIVA, but a fair few won't be back until this time next year.

As long as Peak6 had done nothing, I was confident that we would get somewhere eventually, but this new direction has me concerned. Ostensibly the YDC is being done up to improve facilities for the players, but in reality it's seen by them as a way of investing money and getting a return. It won't be too long before it's being touted around as a conference centre.

A lot of people are worried about the club being saddled with the debt for building a new stadium. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but at the moment the odds are looking shorter on Rovers winning the cup.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell1 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:53 am

Johnnybegood33 wrote:The ground needs to be brought up to a Euro standard , so that Dundalk fans can watch European matches in Oriel Park. Not have to travel to Dublin & watch games in Shamrock Rovers ground. The first thing needed to be done is knock down the main stand & build one the length of the pitch.


In an ideal world of course! The whole place needs flattening and the purchase of CIE land to the Ardee Road, buy back Hiney Park and buy Joes Field too. We can have heated seats and railings for keeping hands warm, maybe a mini tv screen to see replays and allow MOTM be voted for by the crowd with buttons on each seat.

Not being an ideal world in the short to medium term we have to make do with what we have HOPEFULLY with a number of improvements in the mean time. First up is a paint job though the front of the stand looked freshened up. Some sort of coverings on the home and away terraces - farmers all over the country have these that can be erected in days and removed prior to bigger projects when they happen. A toilet block behind the away section and extending the shed roof at each end. Wouldnt be the prettiest of places with these barn like structures but they'd be functional and with a bit of thought and they could be angled out at the ends to improve the view and move some seats forward and raised.

The YDC should be fully functional for fans that side with bars and toilets. We could even allow some away fans access there. They could be catered for and have a bar facility adding to the matchnight revenue generated by certain away fans.

With that facility Oriel Park should be busy every night of the week. It probably has better changing rooms so players could enter the pitch that side and free up space under the main stand for increasing the size of the lounge or introduce proper catering. Wheelchair access platforms could be installed behind the away dugout as it isnt a used standing area.

There are no shortage of modular type covered seating that could go behind the town goal - not these exatly but something similar and more suitable and again isnt hoing to cost in the 100s of thousands. They can be moved, sold on, relocated to our 2nd pitch for reserve games lol. They would practically pay for themselves with 2 games in Europe Image Image
Last edited by dell1 on Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RE: Re: Ground Standards

Postby Sneachta » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:56 pm

oldfogey wrote:
dell1 wrote:All of this if it were done directly out of one persons pocket in a planned rather than piecemeal manner would probably have little change out of €2mil(pitches and YDC being the main cost).


The original grant awarded was more than €2M. Then came the crash and club ended up with less than a quarter of that. I'm agreeing with you 100%, we should appreciate what was done, it just cost more than people realise.

I was quite disappointed with Mike Treacy's interview. 12 months on (they had already done their homework by this time last year), they are still looking into various options. The Dalymount project is more advanced than ourselves and they are 4 years away from a first game. Were they waiting to see if Stephen Kenny would deliver? If tarting up the YDC is all they do after we steamrollered the opposition and look a good bet for the double, what would they have done for runners up spot?

The YDC already has a state of the art gym (Vinnie Perth's words, not mine), changing rooms with showers, and meeting rooms. SK has repeatedly stated that OP is not good enough, thats where the priority is if they want a contract extension. He realises the value of a regular solid fan base and in maintaining that connection with the town as supporters and players feed off each others energy. Last night's crowd of 3,871 was very disappointing, for what was at stake ie trophy presentation, points record, individual points scoring record. They will all be in the AVIVA, but a fair few won't be back until this time next year.

As long as Peak6 had done nothing, I was confident that we would get somewhere eventually, but this new direction has me concerned. Ostensibly the YDC is being done up to improve facilities for the players, but in reality it's seen by them as a way of investing money and getting a return. It won't be too long before it's being touted around as a conference centre.

A lot of people are worried about the club being saddled with the debt for building a new stadium. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but at the moment the odds are looking shorter on Rovers winning the cup.
A state of the art gym is totally different from a high performance unit. You could possibly be looking at the employment of sports scientists and therapists.

Your point is valid still though and it's a tad frustrating. They are looking at pushing the team through the barrier in Europe and a high performance unit would contribute to that.

Then comes the bells and whistles for the rest of us with hoped prize money from progress in Europe. Dare I say it, a season or two in Europa League.

I share the frustrations with a bit of tarting up of the basics at least for Oriel for the short term should definitely be done.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby dell1 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:08 pm

The club is in a great position to apply for sports capital grants so make the minor improvements we want now, and with some creative thinking there are business grants available that could be allocated to a high performance unit. Do it sufficiently well with the likes of Statsports/DkIT on board and it could be used for other sporting bodies in the region and have it as a business that generates revenue but more importantly further inbeds Oriel Park and Dundalk in the region as a service as well as a sports club. Hell have someone open a cresh in the place - anything that keeps the place busy and a key facility in the community, A bonus would be picking up additional supporters.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby El Paso » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:48 pm

Just on the attendance oldfogey the Shed side looked full, the stand was full, town end terrace was full. Where do you expect more people to go? I stood on the hill behind the goal, which is a crap place to watch a match. I got my first view of the goals and trophy presentation on the Soccer Republic twitter feed this morning.

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Re: Ground Standards

Postby shedboy4life » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:56 pm

I sincerely doubt that the attendance figures are accurate but with that in mind surely better facilities would attract even higher attendances that we are currently getting
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