Ground Standards

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fastnbulbous
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by fastnbulbous » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:54 am

dell1 wrote:*I should have read how these new grants were being allocated before dismissing Louth County Council's need for involvement if the NGB cant apply on behalf of a member. Minimum €100m sounds promising although wont go too far if the likes of Dalymount is taking 10-15mil as an example.

" The fund will be open for applications until April 2019 and a minimum of €100m is being provided. The new fund will initially focus on the requirements and development plans of National Governing Bodies of Sport and Local Authorities."
http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2018 ... fund-lssif
Interesting, SDCC this week revealed plans for a 4th stand at Tallaght Stadium and a 3rd floor on top of the existing corporate facilities to cost around 5,000,000, I'd say they'll be applying too ...



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Re: Ground Standards

Post by fastnbulbous » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:26 pm


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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Sneachta » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:37 pm

Oriel park next please. Before the crash would be good

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by superman » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:34 am

So two new stadiums in Louth (GAA and Drogheda), both with big investment from the County Council, and nothing for DFC. Lost the best manager in the league, John Gill coming back to the club as a pretend manager for the FAI and no sponsorship.

No new signings yet, but at least we have a title winning squad signed up from last year.

This is the first off-season for the new owners so its a big test, but it seems not so great for them and us.
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:19 pm

There is no big investment in Louth GAA by LCC, they recieved 400k for the land and they wanted a lot more, the county board wanted it for free - but the elected members got officials to somewhat of a compromise.
The Drogheda project is on a council owned bank of land that has been earmarked for municipal pitches for a long time now and they are in serious shortage in south Louth. There are a good few more forward thinking Dundalk schoolboy clubs etc with the foresight to secure their own pitches than they have in Drogheda. While this is good for DUFC it doesnt address the need for playing capacity below LoI level in the town. For this new 3000 capacity ground the FAI are being pretty generous in handing over the proceeds of the sale of United Park to fund the project with additional grants. Will the council land be purchased also? Will it remain a municipal amenity or be handed over to the FAI/DUFC after, it hasnt really been made clear but I dont think LCC will want the burden that the FAI have held since they bought United Park as a way to bail DUFC out of financial difficulty. 92/93 I think there was about £30k paid by the FAI to help keep the club afloat and ever since the finger has firmly been pointed by Drogheda fans at the FAI for the state of the place forgetting that they were done a huge favour. The FAI are only too glad to get rid of the ground and the embaressment of potentially failing their own ground via their own licencing process. It is certainly not a preference of one Louth club over another! Simply a practical offload of (an embaressing) asset that they dont want

The fly in the ointment is that there has been no timescale for the new Drogheda ground being built, I havent heard of plans being submitted though the DI reported that it was to be based on some ground in Scotland. Iirc its a oneside 2k stand development with some terracing in front. Future capacity of 10k was mentioned but take Athlone and how that technically after their 1 stand was built they could build a capacity of 50k on 3 other sides so have no fear that there will be one nice stand and no more as no more will be required.

We are in a different position. No matter what the shortcomings of Oriel Park are it is not going to fail licencing any time soon. It is also not a ground that is stinking up the FAI asset sheet with them wanting it gone. We are also going to have to take on the chin the general knowledge that our owners, if they wanted to, could submit redevelopment plans asap. That doesnt fit in with their business model of OP doing us nicely domestically and we ship off to Dublin for bigger European games. There is nothin stopping us from applying for grant funding, maybe we have, but if not there is little excuse when it is practically money for nothing. Even a small grant that lays a bay of concrete foundation to allow the erection of temporary stands behind both goals when needed. But until we are creaking at the seams with more than the 5k capacity being stretched more often than once or twice a season I dont see why investors would jump in on building too much additional capacity. As bad as the away section is does it really stop away supporters turn up for key games??

If there hasnt even been some painting done by Feb/March then then we will march JBG in to Mal Brannigans office for a chat and Niall can inspect toilet door locks. Though right now there is some serious and unexpected fires to put out in terms of 1st team management and club sponsorship that need immediate addressing before its likely that grant applications are done. I hope though that the club has seen it fit to employ a consultancy firm to do up plans with a grant application long before now and come next summer there will be news of a few million that the club can add to for some work.

Lets not forget that in the last 10 and a bit years there has been a couple of million+ worth of work done to oriel. Old places like it suck up money that often cant be seen. Everything from the cost of refurbishing floodlights, rewiring the old stand, tarmacing the concourse in to the ground and away exit lane, new roof on the stand with side pannelling, new terracing, and 'improvement' of the shed, building the YDC. toilet block behind the Town Terrace, realignment of space under the stand, refurb of changing rooms, sewers collapsing needed revsion as did getting up waterpressure to have sprinklers. It all adds up, shows how far behind we were and still are and note the vast majority of work was not done by these or the last owners!!!
Last edited by dell1 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by mike » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:15 pm

The clock is ticking if even modest improvements will take place before the new season starts, nothing will happen now until Jan and if it has we would have heard about it.

This probably gives us a full 6 weeks to get even the basics done like a spot of painting and building / improving toilets, but erecting two roofs on either side of the stand could be done over a few days. The current shed roof was erected over 2-3 days from recollection around 2007?

We all know what needs to be done and the list is very long, but will even modest items be addressed?

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Ezeikial » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:29 am

In a James Rogers piece in the Argus last Sept, he reported that Mal Brannigan had hinted to him that
"there may be developments to upgrade Oriel Park before the start of next season"
and that
"the attitude of new owners Peak6 had changed from the start of the season when board member Fred Spencer insisted that any investment in infrastructure would be dependent on success on the field"

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/the ... 7249343213

It seems that the expectations raised in supporters may not be realised and we may need to resign ourselves to that. The inactivity in ground improvements and the deafening silence on this from the club does not inspire confidence in Peak6 for me. Is the summit of our ambitions now reduced to a lick of paint and some new toilet locks?

Hopefully the January transfer activity will not follow the same direction of underwhelming performance by Peak6
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by oldfogey » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:49 am

The only thing we do know is that there has been no planning application so far. Incremental upgrades would - in themselves - be completed earlier, but it takes longer in the end to finish the project. Levelling the ground and starting from scratch is quicker but couldn't be ready before the start of the 2022 season. I'm beginning to wonder if I will last that long.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Ezeikial » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:58 am

oldfogey wrote:The only thing we do know is that there has been no planning application so far.
To be fair oldfogey, I think we know more than that.

We are approaching a month before the new season starts and we know that there has been no upgrade work carried out at Oriel Park and no details of any plan made public
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by El Paso » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:08 pm

I heard what they said when they took over. We’re not getting a new ground unless someone else pays for one. We’re getting no capital investment at all unless it’s cost neutral. We’ll get the bare minimum that the insurance companies require. And remember any money Peak6 spend is money they’re loading onto the club in debt. It’s how Manchester Utd make a shitton of profit, pay the Glazers massive dividends and yet the club still owe hundreds of millions

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Ezeikial » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:31 pm

El Paso wrote:I heard what they said when they took over. We’re not getting a new ground unless someone else pays for one. We’re getting no capital investment at all unless it’s cost neutral. We’ll get the bare minimum that the insurance companies require. And remember any money Peak6 spend is money they’re loading onto the club in debt. It’s how Manchester Utd make a shitton of profit, pay the Glazers massive dividends and yet the club still owe hundreds of millions
I have no expectations of a new ground and I paid close attention to what was said by Jordan Gardner, Fred Spencer, Mike Treacy and Mal Brannigan at the time that the takeover was announced.

But I have no recollection of any caveat around "capital investment being cost neutral" (although that makes sense), "the bare minimum that the insurance companies require" or "loading onto the club in debt" (although that is entirely likely).

Irrespective of what was actually said or implied at that time of the takeover, the fact remains that Mal Brannigan and others created an impression that there was a change of attitude at Peak6 and that upgrades would take place in the close season - maybe this will still happen, but it does not look promising
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by cooney » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:37 pm

Savage suggests new location for Dundalk FC stadium
The Fianna Fáil councillor has proposed it be developed on the former town landfill on the Newry Road.

Fianna Fáil councillor Peter Savage has suggested that part of the former town landfill in Dundalk could be used as a new grounds for Dundalk Football Club and the town's cricket club.

The land - which covers over 30 acres between the old Newry Road and the Inner Relief Road, has not been developed due to the presence of gas on the site.

However, Cllr. Savage's party colleague Conor Keelan asked at Louth County Council's monthly meeting that representatives from the Environmental Protection Agency attend a meeting of the local authority to discuss the issue.

The former Dundalk Town Council and its predecessor Dundalk Urban District Council had plans to turn part of the land into playing pitches for local sports clubs once it is deemed safe for use.


However, Cllr. Savage says the site provides an opportunity on a much bigger scale - for Dundalk Football Club to develop a new stadium.

He is also suggesting that it could be a new home for Dundalk Cricket Club which is currently based in Dromiskin.
https://www.lmfm.ie/news/savage-suggest ... fc-stadiu/

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by El Paso » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:43 pm

I’ve made assumptions there obviously, but it’s what I have inferred from their past words. The infamous puddle was fixed because it was a hazard. The tarmaccing was done for the same reason.

Slightly separately future debt drowning the club still worries me, though it’s not a medium term risk you would think.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:33 am

cooney wrote:
Savage suggests new location for Dundalk FC stadium
The Fianna Fáil councillor has proposed it be developed on the former town landfill on the Newry Road.

Fianna Fáil councillor Peter Savage has suggested that part of the former town landfill in Dundalk could be used as a new grounds for Dundalk Football Club and the town's cricket club.

The land - which covers over 30 acres between the old Newry Road and the Inner Relief Road, has not been developed due to the presence of gas on the site.

However, Cllr. Savage's party colleague Conor Keelan asked at Louth County Council's monthly meeting that representatives from the Environmental Protection Agency attend a meeting of the local authority to discuss the issue.

The former Dundalk Town Council and its predecessor Dundalk Urban District Council had plans to turn part of the land into playing pitches for local sports clubs once it is deemed safe for use.


However, Cllr. Savage says the site provides an opportunity on a much bigger scale - for Dundalk Football Club to develop a new stadium.

He is also suggesting that it could be a new home for Dundalk Cricket Club which is currently based in Dromiskin.
https://www.lmfm.ie/news/savage-suggest ... fc-stadiu/
You would think that there are local elections due in 2019 or something. Conor echoing his Dad's thoughts from 12 years ago.

Peter Savage is not the not the first float an idea for the old dump albeit in different guises. Early 90s a former town architect had a great design for an amphitheatre, suggesting the closing of landfill sites in general, ramp up the focus on recycling, banning single use shopping bags and non biodegradable plastics, nappies etc, not burying toxic waste that puts that land out of use for decades.The site closed over ten years later and we still are sloppy on recycling and enviornmental issues in the country in general

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/ar ... 05855.html

Huge amounts of filling and soil were needed to cover up the dump and the looked like perfect municipal bank of playing fields except that regardless of the costly tidy up the area had 20 years minimum before it could be considered for public use. The time has been extended on numerous occasions by the EPA.

There was also the GAA v Soccer battle where positioning of permanent goalposts for soccer was put on hold (if the land had been called safe to use) as the GAA didnt want permanent soccer posts and to be willing to share the grounds with soccer then mobiles goals were to be used. Dedicated pitches for each sport werent acceptable as for example a GAA angle was 'what if they had a blitz comp, the soccer goals couldnt be left there' (No an issue at DkIT hosted blitzs!?). There was no GAA club in mind for a move to that area with Dowdallshill GFC fine with St Brigids Park. Clan na Gael wanted primary access but Dowdalshill GFC objected to the move in to their area so there was some internal wrangling too. It wouldnt be a surprise to see all this again though hopefully things have moved on from 2006.

If it were possible it wouldnt be the worst site for a new ground though it wasnt a consideration for a County Ground. There is the land that the planning permission for the Altitude project was overturned by ABP in the vicinity based on insufficient services in the area. Clashes with matchnight and racenights would crop up too. Is a football pitch big enough for a cricket oval? At least the pitch would be kepts well if so.

Mal Brannigan has said that the club had looked at options and decided everything that they needed was in Oriel. location, railway station etc but while that might be true and the vast majority of fans want an improved Oriel Park where it is, it is also quite convenient in the way it seems to fit with the owners seeming lack of plans for much to be done. All moot points until the clubs says anything contrary to what has been said to date. The interview with James Rogers mentioned by Ezeikial above that started us hoping for some news, I think the improvements being referred to were the additions to the YDC with the video analysis and sports science facilities and not supporters facilities. We wil probably see the bar being opened in the YDC before anything else and with some common sense fan access to the toilet facilities etc there isnt a huge leap, well maybe it is over the portaloos. ....

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Sneachta » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:14 pm

New pitch on the old site where the dump was? Says it all about the brain power of the council. Maybe for municipal playing pitches but a stadium??? Braindead

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