Ground Standards

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GSBellew
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by GSBellew » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:37 pm

Plenty of scope for jokes about moving from one dump to another though.



dell1
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:03 am

In fairness it was an elected member rather than council admin. Be some laugh if they did build a ground there, the away section would forever be a dump!

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by carrickfan » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:04 am

I’ve been reading the threads on loi attendances this week and the comments that we are not getting over the 3k average regularly or not growing as rapidly compared to our success...our ground standards have a part to play in this I believe. So, would the board be willing to invest in a temporary seated stand (as we had for LC finals) behind either goal for league & cup matches that could test the theory? If our attendances grew the board may be more willing to invest in permanent structures which could be used for Euro matches.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:36 am

Im not a believer in the 'build it and they will come' thinking. Cork, a city of 500k dont sell out Turners Cross and its a good ground. Regardless of what Cork fans might try and say their average attendance was and would be around 3k unless competing for a league title. Rovers in Tallaght is another example were a brand new ground was far from being filled regardless of their 2010 and 2011 title winning seasons, I doubt their average was much better than 4k then.

I would put our hardcore support at between 2000-2500 these days which would be up overall since promotion. We can have up to double that as the floating fan/day tripper who turn up for league deciders and 5 or 6 times that for a cup final. Again regardless of what Cork fans etc say generally improvements to the away section would not create a significant jump in the average gate imo. Bohs are the most consistant away fan numbers in Oriel for a good few years now regardless of their league position. We could get a few hundred more for league games maybe with more covered areas but tbh when it does rain everyone who seeks cover gets it as we really do spread out around the gound generally except for the centre of shed who like to get very cosy. From an aesthetics point of view people who wath games on TV may be inclined to actually go to games if they saw a better standard facility. Basically we dont know what the impact would be beyond peoples personal opinions. I dont know if there has been any research in to ths by the FAI or clubs but there has to be some feasibility study done before significant improvements can be made and Im not sure temporary structures would give much more of an indication as we would need to be targeting the non regular fan to become regulars etc. European game are a different story where the match day experience is poor, demand exceeds capacity and so on but they are once or maybe twice a season fixtures in Oriel.

This is no excuse for not improving things for the existing regular crowd were they should all be able stand/sit in covered areas bar the stand. It takes time and effort to build a regular, loyal fanbase beyond those that inherit their interest or start off on a bandwagon and the bug bites. Bohs are setting the example of building a support base beyond the traditional fans without significant levels of recent success. I think we are missing an opportunity to significantly build on our hardcore support by not striking when the iron is hot. Be they ground improvements, continued building links in the community, creating a real sense of 'ownership' of the club for fans, a connection to the club, getting schoolboy clubs or whomever our *academy partners involved and going to games . A start on this would be an indication of long term committment from the owners by making significant improvements that would lay a basis for the efforts of real growth in support beyond the fair weather types.

*With the demise of Monaghan United in senior football that seems to me a hotbed region of Cavan/Monaghan that isnt properly and formally tapped in to by us as the main senior club in the region. Legitimately we could play some of our underage games in Gortakeegan if the numbers worked, almost like taking on Monaghan's albeit small former catchment and extend our champions 'brand' in to that region. Their underage clubs get a route to a senior club, their better players get accesss to the new national underage leagues Playing for Dundalk and we could pick up support in doing so. If you play for Dundalk at any level then there should be an expectation or encouragement to attend as many senior games as possible - kids bring parents even if on a freebie as a youth player (u12 to u 19s at roughly 20 players per squad + 1 parent is 240 people through the gates that some might stick around as supporters).

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by carrickfan » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:44 am

As a ST holder (with 2 ground tickets), I wont bring the kids if the night is cold/wet as it pointless because they cant see anything from the shed unless they stand on the seats which isnt ideal. I am sure there are other parents who feel the same way. If we are to build our hardcore and future hardcore the basics have to be addressed, good viewing point and good food facilities are two essentials imo.

I share your views on the great work that Bohs have done in the community, and this is something that we need to examine and create a similar footprint, Louth GAA will become a bigger competitor in North Louth once the stadium is built and it becomes an attractive place to visit, people will want to go and experience the atmosphere I think.

The CMUL partnership is up and running and they will have U13,15, 17 & 19 teams in the loi this year, they play some of their games at Gortakeegan, I watched them play our u17 team last year..whilst i dont think a return to adult football in on the cards in the short term, its the inevitable next step i think.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by DundalkChampions » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:50 am

carrickfan wrote:As a ST holder (with 2 ground tickets), I wont bring the kids if the night is cold/wet as it pointless because they cant see anything from the shed unless they stand on the seats which isnt ideal. I am sure there are other parents who feel the same way. If we are to build our hardcore and future hardcore the basics have to be addressed, good viewing point and good food facilities are two essentials imo.

I share your views on the great work that Bohs have done in the community, and this is something that we need to examine and create a similar footprint, Louth GAA will become a bigger competitor in North Louth once the stadium is built and it becomes an attractive place to visit, people will want to go and experience the atmosphere I think.

The CMUL partnership is up and running and they will have U13,15, 17 & 19 teams in the loi this year, they play some of their games at Gortakeegan, I watched them play our u17 team last year..whilst i dont think a return to adult football in on the cards in the short term, its the inevitable next step i think.

Yeh few hundred people watching Louth play Sligo/Leitrim etc in a 8000 stadium will have a great atmosphere.

Even Champ games in Drogheda few years back never sold out and ground was limited to 4000.

P.S Louth are going to have 2 open terraces and 2 stands (id imagine it will be dearer into the stands) so be no roof for your kids unless your paying extra (which you wont in Oriel it seems)

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by carrickfan » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:56 pm

There is a waiting list for stand season tickets in Oriel (but Im sure you knew that anyway)

I cant say the facilities in Drogheda would have enticed event junkies to Louth championship matches in the past.

Anyway my point remains, Oriel is a good venue for an adult spectator but not for kids or families

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:17 pm

I would always have go to see the annual Louth humiliation in the Championship, it would never impact on my going to Oriel Park regularly. There are people who would only ever go to Louth GAA games but never to Oriel Park though. Even if Louth improved you would never get an average of 3k at games. So I wouldnt be too worried of Louth GAA being competition or effect our gates directly even with a new ground. A head to head clash with a championship game would drop our attendance but no more than the larger dog/racing events on Friday nights that can clash. I agree with your last point though.

On Cavan/Monaghan, I thought you must have a senior team to be able to compete in the national underage leagues hence why I suggested that Dundalk FC could fill the gap left by Monaghan United in that area. It makes a mockery of the way the FAI are introducing elite level underage leagues under LoI if they are letting schoolboy leagues compete under their own steam. I know St Kevins(?) were given a short term dispensation to compete until they organise a link up with a LoI club. We have connections to Malahide but we need to spread the net wider and Id have thought that Cavan/Monaghan and parts of Meath underage teams would be suitable to look for link ups and basically swipe their better players. Better coaching, playing the countries other elite players would aid their development, increase their chances of getting noticed and getting a cut of future transfers.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by marmulade » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:56 pm

Oriel is pretty dire as a family experience. There's the aforementioned problems with line of sight to the pitch, but there's also the lack of a dedicated family area to protect kids from some of the saltier language that you might hear from time to time (not looking at anyone in particular...)

Also, the quality of food is pretty dire. The club's promotion of free Sing Li burgers last year was symptomatic of this. Have you ever been to a Leinster Rugby match at the RDS? The quality of food & drink that you can get there is a real eye-opener, and given the number of mobile food businesses operating out of North Louth, it seems a no-brainer to just throw open the doors to them. I can't understand it.

Personally, I think the away facilities are definitely a factor in keeping people away. There's generally 400-600 Dundalk fans at away games in Dublin, so it should be reasonable to expect reciprocation, but the reality is that 100 is the max you'll ever see in there, and it's often in single figures. You don't have to be a genius to see why.

The real question is which of the following 3 options the club will take:
1. Do absolutely nothing
2. Some cosmetic improvement, akin to the puddle fixing
3. A root and branch overhaul of the ground


My bet is on option 2; just enough to say "we're listening to the concerns", without spending any major cash.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:58 pm

I was looking at the work that Larne are doing at Inver Park. Approximately €2mil has been spent and their owner has said that anoth €1.5m is planned to be spent. Its worth a look simply as there isnt a huge amount that seems to atually have been done for that amount of money spent imo. Now they had absolutely nothing to start with but when people often refer to the 8mil that we got from Europe in 2016 and why we havent built practically a new ground well Inver Park I think is a decent example of what you get for your money.

Crusaders have big plans with a £25mil new ground but what I thought was interesting is that they have installed two 'modular' 650 capacity stands behind each goal in Seaview that can be moved to the new development. Both stands cost £880,000 in total Im pretty sure, rather than each from what news reports say. Ideal for Oriel and not being permanent structures leaves plenty of scope for future changes and even selling them off. One behind the town goal at roughly €500k as a family stand would make a huge difference in so many ways to the club and thinking on the owners etc

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Johnnybegood33 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:50 pm

It's sad to see people on here going on about bloody Oriel Park as Stephen Kenny use to say. I ranted about it for years & nothing was done. I got fed up , it's more than pathetic , it's embarrassing .

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White Horse
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by White Horse » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:00 pm

Embarrassing or not, there is nowhere I'd rather be on a Friday evening.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Wexford White » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:04 pm

White Horse wrote:Embarrassing or not, there is nowhere I'd rather be on a Friday evening.
Yes!
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by shedboy4life » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:37 pm

How expensive would it be to put a cover on the away end and the uncovered seating beside the main stand? The shed was done by GM in a day? Two days?

Behind the town end is ideal for development. I’d argue that the numbers that stand behind the town end should quantify for some sort of spectator facilities. All that’s there is a muddy hill so imagine if there was a terrace with a roof it would attract even more spectators to that part of the ground.
These aren’t far fetched ideas and some of them can still be done before the start of the season.
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by El Paso » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:45 pm

‘Nothing was done’ says the guy who seems to forget we needed bucket collections to keep the club alive. Some man for wondering why money that didn’t exist wasn’t spent.

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