Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

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Ezeikial
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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Ezeikial » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:00 pm

dundalkfc1903 wrote:SK has already said he is not in the market for squad players.


No doubt that is what he said


dundalkfc1903 wrote: Bray situation wont change that.


I would be less certain about that


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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby oldfogey » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:10 pm

It's disappointing that some people can't wait to "offload" players like they were shares in AIB. These guys signed contracts with Dundalk in good faith and have families and mortgages. If - as it appears - there is now one less club who can afford to pay players, how is everyone going to find employment? Nobody is going to agree to leave by mutual consent unless they have something else lined up. I personally would rather see Bray survive in some form to the end of the season, instead of automatically taking 12th place and having their results expunged.

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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Louth4sam » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:32 pm

oldfogey wrote:It's disappointing that some people can't wait to "offload" players like they were shares in AIB. These guys signed contracts with Dundalk in good faith and have families and mortgages. If - as it appears - there is now one less club who can afford to pay players, how is everyone going to find employment? Nobody is going to agree to leave by mutual consent unless they have something else lined up. I personally would rather see Bray survive in some form to the end of the season, instead of automatically taking 12th place and having their results expunged.


Can you quote me where anybody has suggested we don't honour contracts? Massive leap from you there. Also do Dundalk have a responsibility for players at other clubs.

Also strange you have a empathy for players at other clubs but don't have empathy for clubs that could be relegated due to Bray's cheating. Would you be hoping for Bray to survive in some form if it meant Dundalk were relegated and possibly out of business ourselves? I don't think anybody wants to see any club go out of business but cheating should be punished
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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby oldfogey » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:44 pm

"Cheating?"

Derry cheated some years ago. What Bray have done is no different to what happened to Dundalk in GM's final year. The operated on a budget whose expectation wasn't matched by local support.

Its common knowledge that players are pressurised into accepting a few weeks wages to move on.

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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Louth4sam » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:04 pm

oldfogey wrote:"Cheating?"

Derry cheated some years ago. What Bray have done is no different to what happened to Dundalk in GM's final year. The operated on a budget whose expectation wasn't matched by local support.

Its common knowledge that players are pressurised into accepting a few weeks wages to move on.


Yes and I said at the time we should have been punished. We were lucky that Monaghan went out of business or we may have. Also I'm pretty sure we weren't out bidding any of our rivals for players judging by our squad.

Are you really saying you have no problem with Bray's actions and honestly believe that the budget was realistic?
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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby oldfogey » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:33 pm

I don't have sight of Bray's budget but I do know that it was viewed as optimistic but not unrealistic. I can say categorically that your observation that Dundalk cheated is way off the mark. The club did not go into administration - nor have Bray - and therefore no punishment was due. Your preference that they should have been punished (with the real possibility of going out of business) makes me wonder whether you consider yourself a supporter at all. Or perhaps this was all more personal?

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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Shoco » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:50 pm

oldfogey wrote:I don't have sight of Bray's budget but I do know that it was viewed as optimistic but not unrealistic. I can say categorically that your observation that Dundalk cheated is way off the mark. The club did not go into administration - nor have Bray - and therefore no punishment was due. Your preference that they should have been punished (with the real possibility of going out of business) makes me wonder whether you consider yourself a supporter at all. Or perhaps this was all more personal?


Well they effectively have cheated, signed players they couldn't afford, bagged a load of points to keep the same from relegation, meanwhile the clubs at the bottom have budgeted correctly and find themselves in a relegation battle because of that.

if bray can see out the rest of the season with youth players they will probably be safe, while other that budgeted correctly will be relegated

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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Ezeikial » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:39 pm

oldfogey wrote:It's disappointing that some people can't wait to "offload" players like they were shares in AIB.


That's a disgrace - who has shares in AIB these days?
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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby niall_hearty2000 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:13 pm

oldfogey wrote:"Cheating?"

Derry cheated some years ago. What Bray have done is no different to what happened to Dundalk in GM's final year. The operated on a budget whose expectation wasn't matched by local support.

Its common knowledge that players are pressurised into accepting a few weeks wages to move on.


Derry cheated and got punished for it. They got relegated and lost their European spot which we got in their place.
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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Louth4sam » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:31 am

oldfogey wrote:I don't have sight of Bray's budget but I do know that it was viewed as optimistic but not unrealistic. I can say categorically that your observation that Dundalk cheated is way off the mark. The club did not go into administration - nor have Bray - and therefore no punishment was due. Your preference that they should have been punished (with the real possibility of going out of business) makes me wonder whether you consider yourself a supporter at all. Or perhaps this was all more personal?


Optimistic???? I'm not sure if you're serious or not. Have a look through any of the LOI fora and you'll see the consensus with almost everyone was it was unrealistic. It was even mentioned on soccer republic by Brian Kerr. In fact, I think you may be the only person that thinks they were achievable.

You're making out this is a victimless crime. What happens to Finn Harps, Galway etc if they're relegated and Bray remain in the league you think this is fair? Would you have an issue if it turned out Cork offered out contracts they couldn't pay and had to offload some of their star players but had built up a big enough lead that they win the league.

I have to wonder if YOU are a supporter at all if you want to reward cheating and punish those that play by the rules.
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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby White Horse » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:30 am

The whole league knew that Brays expenditure could not be funded by attendances. There is no history in Bray of getting the consistent numbers through the gates to generate the required money.

Daniel McDonnell included the following statistic in his report today:

"In 2016, Bray's gate receipts totalled €94,000 while the overall senior team costs were €560,000. And they have increased their spending for this year."

The only possibility was that Bray would be funded by a sugar daddy in a similar way to Pats.

Based on reports in the media, their sugar daddy had second thoughts.

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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Ezeikial » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:41 am

The excellent Daniel McDonnell article, quoted above by White Horse, nails down the issues pretty well:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ ... 87569.html


Is it cheating what Bray have done? I think that many supporters of the clubs in the relegation dog fight may have good reasons to think so.

If it is not cheating, it is certainly unfair and irresponsible - as was the mass of mid season signings made by Dundalk in the Sean Conor year, just before compulsory wage cuts the following month!
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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby El Paso » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:30 pm

If it isn't cheating by the letter of the law, it's certainly cheating those who support the League and want the league to succeed. It is straight up financial doping.

Here you have a small club that disgraced itself during 2015 and was lucky to get a licence for 2016 basically going down the sugar daddy route for 2017 at the expense of more prudent clubs.

It would be a scandal if Bray were let 'survive' in the Premier and Galway, for example, were relegated.
There's only one word for that - magic darts...

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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby dell » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:56 pm

White Horse wrote:Based on reports in the media, their sugar daddy had second thoughts.


And the second thoughts kicked in when Wicklow County Council refused to rezone the Carlisle Grounds no matter what was offered in terms of a new ground on land that was less of a premium to a property developer. Maybe some lessons have been learnt by past greed and land grabs at the cost of recreational zoned areas. Harps, while not losing Finn Park until their 'new' ground is built/completed are still over a decade waiting on Stranrolar in exchange for their current prime patch in Ballybofey town centre. I dont get the impression that the moneymen behind this fiasco at Bray would be so patient if they had gotten the old wink and nod that would have happened with councils a decade ago.

El Paso has described it well as financial doping - it may not be breaking rules per se but the duped (the ridiculously flawed) licencing process and the spirit in which that process is intended. They have dished out contracts of 2 years, 52 weeks full time, to players that they now suddenly no longer can honour and this was suspected as the outcome. If they close up shop and results are expunged the likes of Sligo, on the back of a good win and a turn around in fortunes, are suddenly bottom of the table due to the way the fixture list fell and the results they fought and earned against a club that shoudnt realistically be 3rd in the league. We havent started to pony up for a batch of completely fully time 52 week contracts and ye we are supposed to be the millionaire club these days.

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Re: Rumours/Transfers/Renewals 2017

Postby Ezeikial » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:50 pm

No goalkeeper needed

Stephen Kenny feels Dundalk keeper Gary Rogers is back to his best
The Lillywhites stopper came in for criticism for his performances earlier in the season but his manager has hit back in his defence


https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/12 ... -his-best/
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