Ground Standards

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Ezeikial
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Ezeikial » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:58 pm

Although it might be a hard one to sell right now for a variety of reasons, including lack of current crises, DFC Trusts' disappearing trick, previous poorly run subscription schemes - it is definitely something that is worthwhile trying to get established to give a supporters a voice with the current owners and for contingency/succession planning for the future


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Re: Ground Standards

Post by oldfogey » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:41 am

thecaptain wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:26 pm
Pingu was on about resurrecting this a few months ago too, I definitely think it's well worth doing and would be happy to help out in any way I can on the planning/ admin/ day to day if we could get something going. Might be worth starting a seperate thread to gauge interest and try and nail it down?
While I admire the sentiment I really don't see the point in "donating" money to the club when the owners have really deep pockets. That is not meant to be disrespectful or cynical. While I've not seen inside the YDC - an open day would really help from a PR point of view - I'm led to believe that the upgrades they have completed are really top notch. Upgrades should continue in that vein, rather than " because the supporters have raised enough money".I would prefer that we continue to put pressure regarding certain projects, while bearing in mind that larger/more complex items are more likely to already be part of longer term plans.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Sneachta » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:12 pm

I know this is separate to soccer but there seems to be movement on the Louth gaa county grounds. Would be fantastic to have two state of the art facilities in the town, 1. To reward our soccer team for the achievements they reached this year and the pride they have given supporters and 2. Reinvigorate the languishing gaa in the county. Seems like the council are only interested in supporting the languishing sort.

So much outside of sport could be catered for with two such facilities in the town.

That's not a cheap dig, just a pity, that at this stage, the soccer folk of the town and surrounding hinterland, are treated like sporting lepers.

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thecaptain
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by thecaptain » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:38 pm

oldfogey wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:41 am
thecaptain wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:26 pm
Pingu was on about resurrecting this a few months ago too, I definitely think it's well worth doing and would be happy to help out in any way I can on the planning/ admin/ day to day if we could get something going. Might be worth starting a seperate thread to gauge interest and try and nail it down?
While I admire the sentiment I really don't see the point in "donating" money to the club when the owners have really deep pockets. That is not meant to be disrespectful or cynical. While I've not seen inside the YDC - an open day would really help from a PR point of view - I'm led to believe that the upgrades they have completed are really top notch. Upgrades should continue in that vein, rather than " because the supporters have raised enough money".I would prefer that we continue to put pressure regarding certain projects, while bearing in mind that larger/more complex items are more likely to already be part of longer term plans.
Not having a dig OF but that's the rub of it with a lot of our support, a hell of a lot of ah sure let them sort it, sure they've millions so why should we bother our holes whether it be a supporters/ members club or most everything else that came up over the years, no matter the owners. Whether it be a club ran thing or an independent one it can't be a bad thing to get supporters more involved and engaged and participating with things around the club and the town/ community? Of course for those who'd be inclined to get involved, not saying everyone would or would want to.

Also, who says funds have to go to the club? If an independent one was set up funds could ring fenced for a sh*t hit the fan fund or put towards community facilities or a nominated charity, never mind a lick of paint here or there or a roof over the 5 min terrace or facilities like Sligo supporters have done. Do events like an open day in the YDC with a summer BBQ & a 5 a side tournament or something, Q&A's in the bar with club legends, players etc, an end of season awards do, the ideas are endless for what could be done.

If an official club one was set up say for an extra oner on top of your season ticket you get a bit of exclusive merch, first dibs on Euro tickets, make the Enda McG a members only bar or the one in the YDC on matchdays with a Q&A with a club legend/ player and finger food, meet and greets, members nights/ events stuff mentioned above etc and if the club put that money towards ground improvements/ facilities or whatever I'd be all for it.
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:18 pm

Just had a look at some newer temporary stands at various grounds that can be permanent and are modular - corporate facilities, bars etc can be added. The attraction is that they can be moved to a new ground development, are workable around 'unusual' shaped grounds. Can be removed/sold on and I presume rented at an annual fee so avoiding big capital committments. Brentford had one so our CEO should be familiar with them. Watford have one installed at Vicarage Rd which is good enough for EPL. Pity there is no pricing on the website but this Boreham Wood 900 seater and obviously expandable is great example of what can be done and indeed what we should be demanding as it is a legitimately feasable option!!
Image
https://www.glevents.co.uk/solutions/sp ... /football/

To me the raking of the Exeter Stand is not dissimilar to the main stand. They seem to speialise in incorporating existing infrastructure. Its a site well worth a browse under the case studies! https://www.glevents.co.uk/experience/e ... struction/

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:29 am

Dell the bottom line unfortunately is that until we are turning fans away from the turnstiles the club will do no major improvements. That is the harsh reality of it. Oriel is a dump and has been for most of us since we have followed our club. But it is a dump that is nowhere near to selling out. The club don't care about aesthetic beauty of the ground or fan comfort or shelter for away fans or home fans in the 5 minute terrace. So while it is great looking at these sites for temporary stands that is all it will surmount to.. I hope I am wrong. Only time will tell.
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Sneachta » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:21 pm

Nothing like a harsh dose of reality to reign the Sunday hangover in

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by El Paso » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:03 pm

I agree with Niall in principle, except to say that there’s a touch of chicken and egg about it. Maybe more don’t show precisely because the matchday experience is inadequate. It was said many times that the team deserve better crowds, but what’s the point if you can’t see what’s happening in large areas of the ground or you’re getting pissed on?

I have a ground season ticket and an 8 year old son. Most of the covered part of the Shed is inappropriate for him, so I’m pretty much guaranteed a restricted view and to be out in the open, possibly on a mucky slope.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:26 pm

I agree also and have said as much. If we aint selling out Oriel domestically then why invest on new stands. The example mentioned though are where the possibilities are and with a ground that has an unusual 'footprint' this company gets around that. I like the idea that there isnt a big capital payment, once off, for these facilities and can be done on almost a 'never never' scheme, which could suit us. Exeter as a fan owned club managed to fund a significant development and why not look to that example. Im not convinced on the build it and they will come but at the same time 300 seater extension each wing of the main stand and you do get full view of the pitch, have an away section that wont be moaned about (do we care!). All can be expanded upon bit by bit as per they way this company operate. 6 weeks max to install a 2000 seater stand/extension *for example.
Last edited by dell1 on Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by oldfogey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:21 pm

I'm probably not getting the full picture here, but I'm not sure how we get from an 1100 (1089 to be exact) seater stand to 2000 seats by adding 300 on either side. It's no secret that the access points are far from ideal - a single staircase covers half the stand - but the lack of appropriate facilities means it's not just a case of taking down the sides, building add-on structures, and re-installing the sides.

There are - unfortunately - two major reasons why addings wings is not ideal.

1 - Demolishing the away terrace, smoking area, and bar extension are easily done but only the Lilywhite can go inside. Where do the away fans go? On the town end, extending the stand by a third takes it up to the red exit gate. You would have to remove something like a third of the seats at the town end in order to accomodate the extension and create a new exit area. From memory it's about 650 seats. That's a lot of money to generate 80 extra seats.

2. While the stand was state of the art when it was built, it is over 50 years old and well past it's sell by date. The percentage of seats in the stand which currently do not have an unobstructed view of both goals is quite staggering. A self supporting roof is the only thing these days. While it is, without a doubt, the most expensive item on the list, the stand needs to be rebuilt first, and not just because that would have the greatest impact on how the stadium "looks".

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by dell1 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:55 pm

In fear of sounding like Im labouring the point - the way this particular company engineer their stands is interesting. They specialise in designing things around what already exists. For example the roof of the existing stand could removed and a new one added incorporating extensions each side which could be self supporting. There would not necessarily be a need to demolish the Lilywhite Lounge extension. Ideally a full new stand would be built but if minimising cost of expansion of covered seating the stand may not need to be demolished. If extensions could be the full length of the pitch additional facilities underneath eg toilets, food outlets etc (lots of Tayto and minerals stocked of course) would solve a good lot of current issues. Access would have to be redesigned of course but obsecured views could be done away with. If capacity doesnt actually change that much then it does away with a significant planning issue. I dont expect this to happen any time soon if at all, but it doesnt mean we cant dream. What grabbed my attention on this company is the flexibility of their projects and how minimal the disruption is during the building process. It also interests me on how they deal with unusual areas of space. The Vicarage Rd example their new stand was shoehorned in against a residential street. I get that financially it isnt going to be attractive to owners wanting to maximise their return but in terms of taking the matchday experience of fans seriously its a much more affordable option than what would have been available in the past. One plan in the past that was an extension to the stand over the lounge was priced at 1.2million early co-op era. That would now build double or more than those plans. Away fans could be accomodated the Carrick Road end of an extended stand or of course with a bottomless pit of money a Gortakeegan type effort behind the Carrick end goal would suffice ;)

(Feels a bit like the off season without games)

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by El Paso » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:13 pm

Regardless of what happens, accomodating away fans should be the last of our concerns addressed. In terms of investment it has the least potential return by a mile.

As far as I’m concerned the presence of away fans is a barrier to the fans on the shed side getting a half time drunk and earning the club a few bob. The 2,000 home fans who didn’t show up to the last two home games are worth half a season of away fans. Probably more.

I’d also leave the main stand alone for the moment- you’d get more covered seats in the existing footprint at the Town End and Shed side if done right and probably at lower cost - now that nonsense like ‘conference facilities’ is a thing of the past they only need to be basic structures with toilet facilities.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by colymull » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:25 pm

King Kenny!

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Ezeikial » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:37 pm

I would be interested to hear other peoples interpretation of what Mark Devlin said

His call for patience and suggesting that small steps will be made do not indicate any real intent to improve the facilities in any meaningful way or to increase the capacity of the ground
“I think given the owners come from North America they understand the importance of good facilities. There are exciting times ahead, we’ll make the small steps, hopefully as quickly as possible and all I would ask is a degree of patience as we put the plan in place for more major improvements at Oriel said Devlin, who praised the dedication and levels of investment put into the clubs on-field budget by the owners since their arrival at the club.
https://www.betweenthestripes.ie/blog/2 ... l-upgrades
Ezeikial posts personal opinions and observations from this supporters perspective.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by magarnagle » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:52 pm

Ezeikial wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:37 pm
I would be interested to hear other peoples interpretation of what Mark Devlin said

His call for patience and suggesting that small steps will be made do not indicate any real intent to improve the facilities in any meaningful way or to increase the capacity of the ground
“I think given the owners come from North America they understand the importance of good facilities. There are exciting times ahead, we’ll make the small steps, hopefully as quickly as possible and all I would ask is a degree of patience as we put the plan in place for more major improvements at Oriel said Devlin, who praised the dedication and levels of investment put into the clubs on-field budget by the owners since their arrival at the club.
https://www.betweenthestripes.ie/blog/2 ... l-upgrades
Have you intentionally missed the rest of the sentence where he mentions putting together plans for more major improvements? That might indicate intent.

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