Ground Standards

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JMCG
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by JMCG » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:00 pm

Great to see Dundalk Democrat slating the kip , Oriel Park. What an embarrassment it is. The owners should have a press conference and , inform supporters that what they are going to do. For me there is only one option . Knock it down & build a proper ground.



Robbiedundalk2
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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Robbiedundalk2 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:31 pm

JMCG wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:00 pm
Great to see Dundalk Democrat slating the kip , Oriel Park. What an embarrassment it is. The owners should have a press conference and , inform supporters that what they are going to do. For me there is only one option . Knock it down & build a proper ground.
People who go to Oriel Park are allowed to criticise Oriel Park, no some GAA loving, football hater who takes any opportunity to have a dig. The journalism is an embarrassment

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Ezeikial » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:45 pm

I'm not so sure that too many read Joe Carroll's drivel, and even less are likely to pay any head to his ramblings - even when he is correct in his description of Oriel Park as "not very pretty"

He rarely tries to hide his prejudice and is unable to conceal his ignorance of the game - he laughably describes Gannon's position is 'wing-full' .

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Pepsi » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:46 pm

JMCG wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:00 pm
Great to see Dundalk Democrat slating the kip , Oriel Park. What an embarrassment it is. The owners should have a press conference and , inform supporters that what they are going to do. For me there is only one option . Knock it down & build a proper ground.
Do you realise what a new stadium would cost?? Planning alone at Oriel would be a nightmare I would imagine.
Do you know what the LOI prize money is, what the squad costs are?? What is left after from European earnings after expenses such as flights, accomadation etc. are booked??
Have you ever considered lobbying your local TD or the council to do support the club with regard to a new stadium for Dundalk. Repay the club for a lot of positive publicity and work done within the community.

I always look at it another way....Dundalk is the home of a lot of very very wealthy people, multi-millionares/billionares who like to be Dundalk people when it fits, some living/born in town and/or having started their companies in it. Why havent any of them come in and bought the club or built a community ground before now, little thank you to the community/their roots??? Simple answer is....they are business people who work(ed) hard for their money. They would never get a return on the investment with the current system operated by the LOI and FAI, hence Mike Treacy lobbying for streaming of games and improving income streams. Add to that, no bank in their right mind would finance 10-20 million for a LOI club based on LOI prize money and potential Euro cash.

That means...Peak6 would have to secure all loans, maybe even give them to the club. They said in their first public press conference that a new ground or substanial changes would be down the line and based on income streams, people seem to forget they just invested a brave amount in players facilites in the YDC, so they are willing to spend on infrastructure. Personally find it very clever, as they will not burden the club with debts, they are trying to make the club self suffient and run it as a business. Can only be good in the long term.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by JMCG » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:53 pm

It might be acceptable if we were a Leinster League team , or languishing at the bottom of the graveyard First Division. But this team is the flagship for soccer on the island of Ireland , Europe & afar. Then you walk in to Oriel Park , or see it on National TV. The reaction is one of embarrassment . I think it was one of our centre half's , said in an interview why he came back to Oriel Park , pointed out the facilities for players , not the ground. Maybe we could get a loan from Dundalk Credit Union , they might give us a preferential interest rate , as a charity case.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by JMCG » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:58 pm

Pepsi , I have been listening that for longer than I can remember . It's an indictment on the town of Dundalk that the ground has been caught in a Time Warp for over 50 years. Lobby TDs. my arse. They all know it's falling down .

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by JMCG » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:00 pm

It might be acceptable if we were a Leinster League team , or languishing at the bottom of the graveyard First Division. But this team is the flagship for soccer on the island of Ireland , Europe & afar. Then you walk in to Oriel Park , or see it on National TV. The reaction is one of embarrassment . I think it was one of our centre half's , said in an interview why he came back to Oriel Park , pointed out the facilities for players , not the ground. Maybe we could get a loan from Dundalk Credit Union , they might give us a preferential interest rate , as a charity case.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Pepsi » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:06 pm

JMCG my point is...if it hasnt been done for the last 50 years why should Peak6 walk into town and within 18 months put plans on the table. Andy and Paul did a great job, took the club to a level and said we cant take it any further. They handed it to Peak6 and now we have to give them time.....there will be no quick fix to Oriel unless maybe Larry Goodman, Martin Naughton, Pearse Lyons, the Haughey or McCann family get together and stick/donate 5-10 million each into a pot and tell the club to build a new stadium to make Dundalk proud of.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Sneachta » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:47 pm

Pepsi....a number of those locals you mentioned there wouldn't even spend their confirmation money never mind "invest" in Oriel. In fairness, Goodman sponsored Louth gaa for years though.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Pepsi » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:46 pm

Sneachta....thats the point. If they wont spend their own money on the place and in some cases on the people who helped them reach where they are today, what right have fans got to fire demands at Peak6 who made a clear statement from day 1 that it will take time. They have kept their promises to date and I am sure they are working in the background to get partners to make a new Oriel possible.

LCC are not and have never really been interested in Dundalk FC nor the facility that is Oriel Park. Instead of giving money to a ground fit for European football and the benifits it would take to the town and county, they want to build something up the road for a first division club. Says about everything.....

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by marvin » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:41 am

JMCG wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:00 pm
Great to see Dundalk Democrat slating the kip , Oriel Park. What an embarrassment it is. The owners should have a press conference and , inform supporters that what they are going to do. For me there is only one option . Knock it down & build a proper ground.
Are you aware that the club dont actually own the ground ?
Tomorrow is another day.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by Ezeikial » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:42 am

Excellent twitter thread with some well constructed thoughts around ground development in the League of Ireland by Tredici Campionati / @DanielSextonIRL
Tredici Campionati
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1/x After a number of recent comments doing numbers from people engaging mostly in bad faith, I’m gonna go on a rant about Dundalk, Oriel Park, and the League. Mute this thread if you don’t care! #cmonthetown.

2/x There’s no money in League of Ireland. Clubs have lead a hand-to-mouth existence since 1921. Since the creation of two Divisions in 1985, Home Farm, Dublin City, Fingal, Galway, Kilkenny, Kildare, Monaghan, Newcastlewest, St Francis, St James’s Gate have all left LOI.

3/x Cork, Shamrock Rovers and Drogheda have gone into administration. Cork (twice) and Derry have been liquidated. Shelbourne and Longford have been punished for financial irregularities. Limerick lost its licence. Many of the rest, including Dundalk, have needed rescuing.

4/x Unlike most of Europe, there’s been no development historically of municipal soccer or multi-sport stadiums in Ireland by central or local government. The grant system results in piecemeal improvements at best. Tallaght, funded by SDCC, stands out as an exception.

5/x Clubs that struggle to stay solvent are in zero position to fund capital development. Cork’s attempt to move to Bishopstown ended in a winding-up order in the High Court over unpaid contractors. They rent Turners Cross, which was developed entirely at other’s expense.

6/x Shamrock Rovers were homeless for 22 years, and failed to build a ground in Tallaght for 10 years. After Rovers stiffed their creditors to the tune of about €2.5 million, the Council took Tallaght over and built it for them, paying €13 million to date. Is that the model?

7/x Dundalk made a decision in the ‘30s to move to Oriel. In ‘66/67 the club developed the ground at its own expense and it nearly bankrupted them. Since then the cost of stadium development has accelerated far beyond the ability of *any* League club to afford it. 8/x So what’s the argument from the people complaining about Oriel? Where’s the money supposed to come from? With Dundalk it seems to be that the club should literally be the only one in Ireland to take on a massive capital debt to fund a new stadium.

8/x So what’s the argument from the people complaining about Oriel? Where’s the money supposed to come from? With Dundalk it seems to be that the club should literally be the only one in Ireland to take on a massive capital debt to fund a new stadium.

9/x That’s where the bad faith starts. When a supporter of a rent-a-pitch club complains about Oriel, they’re bitter about Dundalk’s rags to riches story and want Dundalk dragged down, despite the fact that by renting and having no capital debt *their* club has an advantage.

10/x Should Dundalk have sunk the Euro prize money into the ground? Not at the expense of the team, no. Certainly not for a few dozen away fans with zero self-awareness who’d just find something else to bitch about.

11/x “The American owners should do it”. Why should they? They’re business people, not philanthropists. Why should they see most of their potential rivals benefit from local authority or FAI funding while they’re expected to spend money that won’t see an ROI for 20 years?

12/x But is Oriel fit for purpose? No, of course not. Could something be done? Absolutely. Is there any excuse for the ground not being clean or the Town End being a mess? Or the wasted land where the away end is? No. And the close season was wasted.

13/x Fixing Oriel isn’t as complicated as is claimed. The 3 non-stand sides of the current footprint of the ground could fit 4,000 covered seats. At a minimum of €1,000 per seat it would need 4 million. If the average attendance went up by 1,000 the ROI would be 14 years.

14/x But it needs proactive support from Louth CoCo and the FAI and there’s zero sign of that happening. The previous owner built the YDC and the CoCo’s 430k ‘development levies’ nearly killed the club. Without support all we’ll get is a mishmash of slight improvements.

15/15 This Dundalk team deserves all the spectators it can get. Fact is barely 2,000 people have unrestricted views. The owners and the council should do the right thing, not because of Twitter bitching, but because it’s in the interest of their investment. Fin #cmonthetown

P.P.S. This thread is as much for your man in the @DundalkDemocrat as assorted twitter spoofers. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

P.S. to P.P.S. If Oriel doesn’t meet your standards you don’t have to go! It seems amazing this needs to be pointed out. “But it makes the League looks bad on the telly” Really? Because I’ve bad news for you about how losing seven European matches in a row without scoring looks.


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Re: Ground Standards

Post by White Horse » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:14 am

Ezeikial wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:45 pm
I'm not so sure that too many read Joe Carroll's drivel, and even less are likely to pay any head to his ramblings - even when he is correct in his description of Oriel Park as "not very pretty"

He rarely tries to hide his prejudice and is unable to conceal his ignorance of the game - he laughably describes Gannon's position is 'wing-full' .

https://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/news/ins ... o-tie.html
I don't listen to a sports journalist who doesn't appear to bother to go to games in Oriel.

Someone should tell him that the Ban is over. Perhaps, for some it will never be over.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by El Paso » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:05 pm

Dundalk were offered a new all seater stadium at DKIT to be funded by the Louth county Council and the FAI.The then owner turned the offer down.The issue came up again a few years later but there seemed to b little interest .Now @louthgaa are building a new stadiumon samespot
That’s according to Gerry Malone. Is that true? Sounds like a rumour that Gerry is remembering as a serious offer. The plans announced in 2010 were for a multi sport stadium anchored by Louth GAA, and were kiboshed by the GAA if I remember right.

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Re: Ground Standards

Post by oldfogey » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:37 am

El Paso wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:05 pm
Dundalk were offered a new all seater stadium at DKIT to be funded by the Louth county Council and the FAI.The then owner turned the offer down.The issue came up again a few years later but there seemed to b little interest .Now @louthgaa are building a new stadiumon samespot
That’s according to Gerry Malone. Is that true? Sounds like a rumour that Gerry is remembering as a serious offer. The plans announced in 2010 were for a multi sport stadium anchored by Louth GAA, and were kiboshed by the GAA if I remember right.
Very disingenuous of Gerry to reference 2009 rumours in relation to today's club status. I think if it was offered now, we would definitely turn it down on the basis that

(a) We would want full time use of our own stadium built to UEFA Cat 3 standard, as distinct from round 1 qualifiers and county finals.
(b) The FAI couldn't pay for a round of coffees at present, never mind give out grants.

I see Phibsboro has issues due to a dispute with Tesco over access/right of way. As for Drogheda.....

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