2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

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seand
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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by seand » Thu May 27, 2021 11:44 am

Pepsi wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:22 am
seand wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:00 am The suggestion that a second division uncapped Korean could somehow build the brand of an unknown European club form the 37th best league in Europe is laughable. In the enormously unlikely event that he turns out to be the next Heung-Minh Son (spolier alert.... he can't get in to an atrocious Dundalk side) he might just shift some shirts for West Brom or wherever he's moved on to if he turns good. Even if by some miracle we strom through four qualifying rounds, make UECL groups and go toe-to-toe with say Roma, Copenhagen and Rosenborg do you think anyone in Seoul will give a flying fudge? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Busan is awash with SC Freiburg jerseys since Jeong Woo-Yeong went there. Maybe the 506 expatriate South Korean footballers listed on Wiki are cash cows for their 506 foreign clubs.
You really need to open up more ...... small town thinking, instilled in Irish football by John Delany and his mates has to disappear if Irish clubs are to be a success at anything they try.
Kagawa signed for Borussia Dortmund from a similar level, reserve at a second division club in Japan. No one in Dortmund, not even Klopp expected him to be more than a sub or reserve team player in their U23 team under David Wagner. It was a purely marketing lead deal, taking a punt, free transfer and manageable wages. He arrived, played like muck in the first 3 games and then in preseason he struck up a friendship with Kevin Grotzkreuz, learned the language .... once he had a mate he was like a different man. His confidence grew ..... he got into Klopps first 11 and within weeks BVB were sending merchandise daily to Japan. Upon selling him to Utd. BVB estimated that he generated €175 million in merchandise sales in Asia alone... that for a man they signed on a €10k per week deal initially.
Likewise Lewandowski ...... Robert had a stinker in his first season at BVB, wouldnt have scored in a brothel if you paid the bill in advance. He then got the girlfriend (now his wife) over to live with him, he started to learn German, meet people and low and behold he is what he is today.
Aubameyang ... arrived in Dortmund and didnt perform as was expected. His brother Willy (player for AC Milan youths) was then signed by a club closeby on a semi pro deal, Auba has someone close to him and slowly his form improved. At the end of his time in Dortmund he had 2 houses on one site ... himself and the wife in one and the rest of his family in the other.

The point is ..... owners of clubs have reasons for taking a punt on a player, it is a bit like playing roullette. Some work out, some dont. If Han was to play well in Europe, get called up to the national team once or twice, you would be looking very foolish when you arrive at Oriel and see an influx of Asians students coming to see him, maybe 2-3 directly after the announcement, then 10-12 ... if he stays in the national team Rogers, Malone and co would be sending reports to the Souel Argus. The fan shop would be sending gear in no time ...... How do I know ..... because I experienced it first hand at Düsseldorf, Leverkusen and Dortmund.
As for Jeong Woo Yeong, I think you will find it was Bayern Munich and not Freiburg that took the punt on him. Munich called him back to their U23 team in January 2020 to exploit the market as he had made a name for himself in the qualification games of Korean oylmpic team. Once they made their money, he was off back to Freiburg who are also not doing too bad from his image rights.
TLDR but keep the personal insults to yourself please.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Thu May 27, 2021 11:50 am

seand wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:43 am
niall_hearty2000 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:15 am I have to say I don't like the way a lot of the threads are currently going. It really doesnt sit well with me slagging players off cos they are foreign and that we should only sign the best of the irish players. For anyone looking in on this that is how it is coming across and it doesn't look well.
Leave the foreign aspect out of it. And there are plenty of home grown players in that squad who aren't performing either. The squad as a whole aren't performing at the levels expected from this club. I think taking lads in fron further afield than the UK can be a good idea, i think the problem is that whoever is scouting or promoting these players to the club hasn't a clue. And also while the break up of the kenny squad needed to happen, it should have been done gradually like kenny used to fo, a cpl per season, not 5, 6, 10 like it has over the past 18 months. Equally for the wages we are paying, we would be better of recruiting from league 1 in the UK. If a player is without a club for 8 months even though they command high wages, then there is an issue with the player, be it attitude, ability or injury.

And this post is not aimed at anyone in particular, more a general thought, but i have seen it creeping in recently.
I don't know Niall, the policy of signing foreign players is a thing that deserves discussion and I don't think this thread has been particularly xenophobic. The problem is not the foreignness of players- nobody had a problem with Kudzovic, Adorjan, Vemmelund or even Colovic, Jurkovskis, Chevdukas on the basis of their foreignness. People have an issue with the policy of bringing in poor quality imports at a high cost. And no question there's plenty of Irish underperforming.
Sean yes i agree but adorjan, faz, vemmelund were all successful and playing in excellent squads. But the current crop unfortunately aren't and now a lot of posts are foriegn this and that, and wr should be hiring the best of irish. To outsiders looking in it doesn't look good imho.
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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Louth4sam » Thu May 27, 2021 12:03 pm

niall_hearty2000 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:15 am I have to say I don't like the way a lot of the threads are currently going. It really doesnt sit well with me slagging players off cos they are foreign and that we should only sign the best of the irish players. For anyone looking in on this that is how it is coming across and it doesn't look well.
Leave the foreign aspect out of it. And there are plenty of home grown players in that squad who aren't performing either. The squad as a whole aren't performing at the levels expected from this club. I think taking lads in fron further afield than the UK can be a good idea, i think the problem is that whoever is scouting or promoting these players to the club hasn't a clue. And also while the break up of the kenny squad needed to happen, it should have been done gradually like kenny used to fo, a cpl per season, not 5, 6, 10 like it has over the past 18 months. Equally for the wages we are paying, we would be better of recruiting from league 1 in the UK. If a player is without a club for 8 months even though they command high wages, then there is an issue with the player, be it attitude, ability or injury.

And this post is not aimed at anyone in particular, more a general thought, but i have seen it creeping in recently.
I would hope and have no reason to doubt it, that the criticism of signing an number of foreign players has nothing to do with xenophobia and more the fact that it is more of a gamble signing a player from another league. It's a different style of play and in most cases culture and language and it can take time to adapt. Most importantly you may not have the chance to watch the player in the flesh and you are relying on agents and 3rd parties which seems to have been the case with some of our imports over the past few years.

Personally I have no problem with signing players from other leagues in theory as long as the research is put in and the players we bring in appear to be better options than we can sign within the league. This makes the risk of a transitional/adjustment period more palatable. It is also important that the club is putting steps in place to help foreign imports settle as quickly as possible and introduce them in to the culture of the club. I acknowledge that this would be extremely challenging over the past 12 months for obvious reasons.
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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Louth4sam » Thu May 27, 2021 12:11 pm

niall_hearty2000 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:50 am
seand wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:43 am
niall_hearty2000 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 10:15 am I have to say I don't like the way a lot of the threads are currently going. It really doesnt sit well with me slagging players off cos they are foreign and that we should only sign the best of the irish players. For anyone looking in on this that is how it is coming across and it doesn't look well.
Leave the foreign aspect out of it. And there are plenty of home grown players in that squad who aren't performing either. The squad as a whole aren't performing at the levels expected from this club. I think taking lads in fron further afield than the UK can be a good idea, i think the problem is that whoever is scouting or promoting these players to the club hasn't a clue. And also while the break up of the kenny squad needed to happen, it should have been done gradually like kenny used to fo, a cpl per season, not 5, 6, 10 like it has over the past 18 months. Equally for the wages we are paying, we would be better of recruiting from league 1 in the UK. If a player is without a club for 8 months even though they command high wages, then there is an issue with the player, be it attitude, ability or injury.

And this post is not aimed at anyone in particular, more a general thought, but i have seen it creeping in recently.
I don't know Niall, the policy of signing foreign players is a thing that deserves discussion and I don't think this thread has been particularly xenophobic. The problem is not the foreignness of players- nobody had a problem with Kudzovic, Adorjan, Vemmelund or even Colovic, Jurkovskis, Chevdukas on the basis of their foreignness. People have an issue with the policy of bringing in poor quality imports at a high cost. And no question there's plenty of Irish underperforming.
Sean yes i agree but adorjan, faz, vemmelund were all successful and playing in excellent squads. But the current crop unfortunately aren't and now a lot of posts are foriegn this and that, and wr should be hiring the best of irish. To outsiders looking in it doesn't look good imho.
I know this extremely low hanging fruit but take Abibi. Any one of us could name five goalkeepers within the league that we would have signed over an unknown that was a journeyman in Serie C and hadn't played a game in two years. That was an incredible gamble that even if it worked out should have been mitigated against by signing signing a low risk (yes I'm going to say it) domestic based goalkeeper that has two or three seasons under their belt and we know they perform well in the league. Cherrie was not this low risk decision and was a panic signing. That's not Xenophobia that's making intelligent low risk decisions.
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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Breffni white » Thu May 27, 2021 1:45 pm

Nobody has a problem with players from other countries coming into this league , if it works and they improve the quality of the team and league then brilliant , unfortunately we took a gamble and probably signed too many at once with the ambition of becoming a European club in Ireland as JM put it in an interview , if you're going down that path the players you bring in have to be better than the ones you let go or that were available in your own league , so far this has not been the case and results and performances have proven this, it's very understandable that it takes players time to settle in a new country with a different mentality and culture , but unfortunately when you only give 12 months contracts to these players that means they have to hit the ground running as time is not on their side.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by seand » Thu May 27, 2021 2:47 pm

I think Jurkovskis is a great example of how this policy could work- getting the best players with good domestic, European and possibly even international experience from similar leagues. (Not that we needed to gamble on a full back when we had Gannon, Massey, Dummigan and Leahy... but anyway)

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Richie87 » Thu May 27, 2021 3:44 pm

Breffni white wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 1:45 pm Nobody has a problem with players from other countries coming into this league , if it works and they improve the quality of the team and league then brilliant , unfortunately we took a gamble and probably signed too many at once with the ambition of becoming a European club in Ireland as JM put it in an interview , if you're going down that path the players you bring in have to be better than the ones you let go or that were available in your own league , so far this has not been the case and results and performances have proven this, it's very understandable that it takes players time to settle in a new country with a different mentality and culture , but unfortunately when you only give 12 months contracts to these players that means they have to hit the ground running as time is not on their side.
Agree it was too many players at once from outside Ireland. I think 3 good foreign players would have been sufficient.

It remains to be seen what the future recruitment will be like. Maybe more towards players in UK and Ireland and the odd overseas signing.
If Chris Shields was off to Linfield in July, Shaun Williams would be a good replacement.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Pepsi » Thu May 27, 2021 4:01 pm

Would people not agree that the reason for the number of signings from outside the British / Irish market may be down to FG being involved in selecting them?? An Italian, who spent time in New York and landed in wee Dundalk. Maybe a bit too excited when Peak6 gave him the credit card....confidence was certainly there.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Richie87 » Thu May 27, 2021 4:20 pm

The problem was if Peak 6 were planning on bringing in a DOF why did they let Fillipo get players signed before Magilton was appointed.?
Fillipo said there wasn't the type of players in LOI that they were looking for.
He had only been in Ireland since August, so how could he have a full gauge of what was in the League?
But there was other foreign players signed after Magilton arrived,so wasn't all down to Fillipo

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Louth4sam » Thu May 27, 2021 4:31 pm

Pepsi wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 4:01 pm Would people not agree that the reason for the number of signings from outside the British / Irish market may be down to FG being involved in selecting them?? An Italian, who spent time in New York and landed in wee Dundalk. Maybe a bit too excited when Peak6 gave him the credit card....confidence was certainly there.
Rather than the strategy you suggested Peak 6 were following?
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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Pepsi » Thu May 27, 2021 4:52 pm

Louth4sam wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 4:31 pm
Pepsi wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 4:01 pm Would people not agree that the reason for the number of signings from outside the British / Irish market may be down to FG being involved in selecting them?? An Italian, who spent time in New York and landed in wee Dundalk. Maybe a bit too excited when Peak6 gave him the credit card....confidence was certainly there.
Rather than the strategy you suggested Peak 6 were following?
Their strategy from day one has always been to internationalise the club. To move on in Europe, they either have to buy every top player in Ireland (which they cannot do) or they try spreading the net, which they have done. FG offered them the international players and style they longed for.
Their strategy is very simple:
- a Squad to have a go in Europe
- Improve income streams off the pitch
- Work towards a point where Dundalk FC doesnt need their money to run on a day to day basis

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Pepsi » Thu May 27, 2021 4:58 pm

Richie87 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 4:20 pm The problem was if Peak 6 were planning on bringing in a DOF why did they let Fillipo get players signed before Magilton was appointed.?
Fillipo said there wasn't the type of players in LOI that they were looking for.
He had only been in Ireland since August, so how could he have a full gauge of what was in the League?
But there was other foreign players signed after Magilton arrived,so wasn't all down to Fillipo
Signings are not made a drop of the hat, I suspect Fillipo gave a list of players he wanted, then maybe was presented with a list and said I want him, him, him ..... Magilton would have seen the list and said give it a go. The worst case would have been that it didnt work out, however what had he personally to lose?? Worst case was he could get rid of FG, appoint his own man and then influence the players coming in. He also cut out the direct to Florida ;)

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Richie87 » Thu May 27, 2021 5:50 pm

What had he personally to lose? Well his reputation as a Director hasn't gotten off to a good start. The club are in a very poor position with players looking to leave ,and most out of contract at end of year

They either get it right in July or risk having no European football next year. Which would give the club a big financial hole

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Richie87 » Thu May 27, 2021 10:57 pm

A few players being released in July, and a new keeper and a few other players being brought in https://t.co/LHJIvqCcmd?amp=1

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Hull White » Thu May 27, 2021 11:19 pm

Louth4sam wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 12:11 pm
niall_hearty2000 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:50 am
seand wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:43 am

I don't know Niall, the policy of signing foreign players is a thing that deserves discussion and I don't think this thread has been particularly xenophobic. The problem is not the foreignness of players- nobody had a problem with Kudzovic, Adorjan, Vemmelund or even Colovic, Jurkovskis, Chevdukas on the basis of their foreignness. People have an issue with the policy of bringing in poor quality imports at a high cost. And no question there's plenty of Irish underperforming.
Sean yes i agree but adorjan, faz, vemmelund were all successful and playing in excellent squads. But the current crop unfortunately aren't and now a lot of posts are foriegn this and that, and wr should be hiring the best of irish. To outsiders looking in it doesn't look good imho.
I know this extremely low hanging fruit but take Abibi. Any one of us could name five goalkeepers within the league that we would have signed over an unknown that was a journeyman in Serie C and hadn't played a game in two years. That was an incredible gamble that even if it worked out should have been mitigated against by signing signing a low risk (yes I'm going to say it) domestic based goalkeeper that has two or three seasons under their belt and we know they perform well in the league. Cherrie was not this low risk decision and was a panic signing. That's not Xenophobia that's making intelligent low risk decisions.
The posts mentioned by Niall as concerning are nothing to do with Xenophobia, race or any other current hip excuse for failure. My problem is with our management signing crap players whatever their colour, caste or creed. All I would say that if the current band of imports on big wages are as good as it gets the club would be better off playing Irish lads who understand the leagues and have a feeling for their clubs. They also understand the culture of the place. I for one resent any inference that people's posts regarding the signing of overseas players is based on anything other than with few exceptions they have been crap players.......and expensive crap at that!

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