2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

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Hull White
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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Hull White » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:32 am

or JM not yet properly engaging in the role he's been employed to do.
[/quote]

Where my money is! Bluffer of International standard! If management ability was dynamite, he wouldn't have enough to blow his hat off!

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:25 am

southerncomfort wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:29 pm
Martin Lawlor80 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:29 pm
Martin Lawlor80 wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:10 pm

If true, it looks like you can give a sob story to Bill and he’ll let you go like Colovic, FG and Shields
So James Rogers has pretty much confirmed my guess that Fats has given a personal request to Bill to let him leave over the Summer. Colovic, Fillippo and Shields have done it now Fats, where do we draw the line?? Ridiculous situation that Bill has overseen. “ I want out now for family reasons Bill”
“Yea no problem we’ll sort that out for you”!!
The Derry announcement was to put pressure on Bill to release him now on the cheap.
If Fats wants to go now he shouldn’t be ringing Bill, he should be ringing Higgins and telling him to stump whatever our asking price is. I suppose we’ll see by the end of the month if this happens or if Bill is actually a soft touch who crumbles in the face of a fcukin sob story.

Pay the full asking price or wait 4 months to go to Derry ffs
Not heard this weeks pod, but even if fats/his agent has requested releases early for family reasons, doesn't 100% mean its actually what he really wants. Its a good look for anyone signing a pre contract to seek to want to go to the new employer early , and if you're an agent you're encouraging he makes the request , and you're assuring the purchasing club '' he's trying his hardest to get here early i swear '' etc

We should just decline the request and move on, and let him make us miss him with a stormer of a season .

Also - bizarre that bill's being mentioned again. . . . either its more deliberate use of him as the ''fall guy '' or JM not yet properly engaging in the role he's been employed to do.
My guess is that VP knows what areas need strengthening, JM would have a long contact list with available players but Bill is keeping the chequebook closed because he’s leaving at the end of the season. That’s only my opinion but would you not agree that that’s what things are pointing to ??

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by southerncomfort » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:42 am

Martin Lawlor80 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:25 am
southerncomfort wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:29 pm
Martin Lawlor80 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:29 pm

So James Rogers has pretty much confirmed my guess that Fats has given a personal request to Bill to let him leave over the Summer. Colovic, Fillippo and Shields have done it now Fats, where do we draw the line?? Ridiculous situation that Bill has overseen. “ I want out now for family reasons Bill”
“Yea no problem we’ll sort that out for you”!!
The Derry announcement was to put pressure on Bill to release him now on the cheap.
If Fats wants to go now he shouldn’t be ringing Bill, he should be ringing Higgins and telling him to stump whatever our asking price is. I suppose we’ll see by the end of the month if this happens or if Bill is actually a soft touch who crumbles in the face of a fcukin sob story.

Pay the full asking price or wait 4 months to go to Derry ffs
Not heard this weeks pod, but even if fats/his agent has requested releases early for family reasons, doesn't 100% mean its actually what he really wants. Its a good look for anyone signing a pre contract to seek to want to go to the new employer early , and if you're an agent you're encouraging he makes the request , and you're assuring the purchasing club '' he's trying his hardest to get here early i swear '' etc

We should just decline the request and move on, and let him make us miss him with a stormer of a season .

Also - bizarre that bill's being mentioned again. . . . either its more deliberate use of him as the ''fall guy '' or JM not yet properly engaging in the role he's been employed to do.
My guess is that VP knows what areas need strengthening, JM would have a long contact list with available players but Bill is keeping the chequebook closed because he’s leaving at the end of the season. That’s only my opinion but would you not agree that that’s what things are pointing to ??
I don't really get that narrative around Bill , its constantly reported that the reason they don't want to give contracts is to allow them to sell the club on easier & maybe that's correct. I don't see how that's logical. Why would it be easier to sell a club without any decent players / management staff etc contracted.

I'm sure selling the club is one of the options, but not selling is surely is also an option.

And if not selling; given the change in circumstances since we gave JM a four year, reportedly best part of half a million plus contract, and gave out other short term highly paid contracts, there has been a huge shift, including relegation fears at one point.
So surely caution at this stage is understandable.

It also makes some sense to try to understand revenue expectations before you make next years expenditure commitments.

The other issue is the management team . While personally I think VP was definitely the right move , especially ahead of an LOI management novice ( no matter how much potential, well meaning or pally with podcasters they are) I think we were right to start with a short term contract for an experienced LOI coach and assess it from there - .... but there's a 'cost' to it being short term.
If I was a player now, I'd be less inclined ( and therefore more expensive) to choose us as my next career move unless I understood the long term 'vision' from a manager - hopefully JM can do this - but after the circus at the start of the season it might be difficult.

Arguably, with everyone from jounros to ( non Dundalk ) amateurish podcasters rooting for our downfall and seeing us as an easy targets,,,, it'll be hard to get good ''player value'' until we improve on the field .. thankfully we seem to be on the way.

What is 100% right is , , , , we're far better off now than we were a few weeks ago. destroyed 5-1 to Bohs, loosing 3-1 to Waterford ... terrible aimless football - crises talks - protest outside the ground .....

The few on here that don't recognise that bill & co are capable of turning things around ( evidence = see Euopa leage grounp qualification last year - FAI cup last year ) , simply have an axe to grind - and want to drive p 6 out and have no plan post p6 .

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by southerncomfort » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:58 am

double post

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Bob Prole » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:34 pm

Any potential buyer is obliged to honour existing contracts. It would be an asset if they had a potential sell on value but that's not the case in LOI. That's why the club is harder to sell if you can't clear players off the books first.

A couple of times now this guy has tried to claim that nobody knowing if they intend selling or not and people being on short term deals including the manager is good for the club then manages to show how it's only bad for the club - instability, no long term planning, no vision to sell anyone. Is it also good that Vinny has no assistant yet a month after he got the job? How much is he expected to do on his own?

The reason Bill gets the focus and not Jim is that Bill (and Matty) control the purse strings and appear to still be in full control of everything with no obvious role for Magilton at all. Derry specifically name checked Bill Hulsizer and not Jim as negotiating the sale of Fats. Surprised that wasn't noticed. 'Bill and co' can turn things around! Another company spokesman in a coma for the last few years? Who drove us off the road in the first place? Mickey Mouse?

Anyone else spot the irony of sneering at a 'management novice' pally with podcasters, then bigging up the FAI Cup and Europa League, which was achieved by... a management novice?
Last edited by Bob Prole on Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by southerncomfort » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:02 pm

Bob Prole wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:34 pm Any potential buyer is obliged to honour existing contracts. It would be an asset if they had a potential sell on value but that's not the case in LOI. That's why the club is harder to sell if you can't clear players off the books first.
You're over stating this to fit an anti p6 narrative . . . . Buy a cafe tomorrow - there are pro's and cons to arriving with staff / or with no staff. A more likely explanation is that this is a period of adjustment , they might sell . . .they might not ... . . but the outgoings need to be closer to the income given the collapse in expectation.
Bob Prole wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:34 pm Derry specifically name checked Bill Hulsizer and not Jim. Surprised that wasn't noticed.
Of course chairmen will speak - as I understand Derry don't have the equivalent of JM... ideally you want JM leading this stuff - presumably that's the plan.
Bob Prole wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:34 pm 'Bill and co' can turn things around! Another company spokesman in a coma for the last few years? Who drove us off the road in the first place? Mickey Mouse?
Last few years? you mean the almost domestic trebble , in their 1st full season ..... or their FAI cup and Europa League Group stages in their second full season ?
I was perfectly awake for it - enjoyed every moment. Unlike some who were hoping to get some post Kenny Misery sulking , and anti wealthy American owners stuff out of their systems.
Bob Prole wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:34 pm Anyone else spot the irony of sneering at a 'management novice' then bigging up the FAI Cup and Europa League, which was achieved by... a management novice?
The two boys were scuppered by the licencing arrangements - timing was unlucky. They took over a team of champions and did ok ...... A few weeks ago we faced 1st division oblivion. Its wasn't the time for managers who have never managed at LOI level. Not sneering at any of the candidates, just the naivety/motivation calling for a novice over an experienced, league winning coach as a stop gap / emergency break while we reflect .

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Bob Prole » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:10 pm

Buying a cafe. Lol.

Exactly. All that success. The success we had before they took over. The success we continued to have after they took over. The success we had because of a culture embedded in the club before they ever heard of us. A culture they gutted. "They took over a team of champions and did ok". Are you talking about Filippo and Giusseppe or are you talking about the owners?

So I ask again - who drove us off the road?

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Bob Prole » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:34 pm

In Vinny's first print interview with James Rogers he said he had two or three names in mind and that Jim had suggested 7 or 8. Two weeks to go. Wonder will we see anyone at all?

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:36 pm

Bob give it a rest people are sick to the back teeth of ur one vision which is anti peak 6 anti everything that doesnt suit your agenda. If you think you can do better put your money down. We are winning games again, we have got through the first round of europe, yet still all you wanna do is complain and see the negatives. You say we are driven off the road. Well we were certainly off the road during all those years we spent in the first division
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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by southerncomfort » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:37 pm

Bob Prole wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:10 pm Buying a cafe. Lol.

Exactly. All that success. The success we had before they took over. The success we continued to have after they took over. The success we had because of a culture embedded in the club before they ever heard of us. A culture they gutted. "They took over a team of champions and did ok". Are you talking about Filippo and Giusseppe or are you talking about the owners?

So I ask again - who drove us off the road?
Cafe / Factory / football club / Multinational - pros and cons of having existing staff when you buy them .... Complain about not having Shields and fats on long term , but then insist no one would buy us with them tied down . . . . nonsense

Yes - Talking about Filippo and Giusseppe , good lads at the wrong time. Yes novices, but they took over champions & achieved so much

Who drove us off the road? We've hit a major bump in the road.... some are delighted for whatever reason ( the same people coincidentally that were first to put the boot in after our initial post kenny wobble we were 14 points behind rovers - where we almost won a trebble ) that want to join the external cynics , amateur hour (non Dundalk) podcasters... at kicking us while we're down.... The rest are supporters.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Bob Prole » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:43 pm

southerncomfort wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:37 pm Cafe / Factory / football club / Multinational - pros and cons of having existing staff when you buy them .... Complain about not having Shields and fats on long term , but then insist no one would buy us with them tied down . . . . nonsense
I'm explaining what might be the logic of not having players on contracts beyond 2021 if they're intending to sell because I'm trying to understand what's happening. I'm not insisting no one will buy us, I said it's harder to sell if they have a lot of players on the books. I very much want our best players on long term deals.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Bob Prole » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:43 pm

niall_hearty2000 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:36 pm Bob give it a rest If you think you can do better put your money down
No.

And people who try to shut up other people unless they have money can get stuffed. I'll say what I like unless the mods want to ban me.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:03 pm

southerncomfort wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:42 am
Martin Lawlor80 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:25 am
southerncomfort wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:29 pm

Not heard this weeks pod, but even if fats/his agent has requested releases early for family reasons, doesn't 100% mean its actually what he really wants. Its a good look for anyone signing a pre contract to seek to want to go to the new employer early , and if you're an agent you're encouraging he makes the request , and you're assuring the purchasing club '' he's trying his hardest to get here early i swear '' etc

We should just decline the request and move on, and let him make us miss him with a stormer of a season .

Also - bizarre that bill's being mentioned again. . . . either its more deliberate use of him as the ''fall guy '' or JM not yet properly engaging in the role he's been employed to do.
My guess is that VP knows what areas need strengthening, JM would have a long contact list with available players but Bill is keeping the chequebook closed because he’s leaving at the end of the season. That’s only my opinion but would you not agree that that’s what things are pointing to ??
I don't really get that narrative around Bill , its constantly reported that the reason they don't want to give contracts is to allow them to sell the club on easier & maybe that's correct. I don't see how that's logical. Why would it be easier to sell a club without any decent players / management staff etc contracted.

I'm sure selling the club is one of the options, but not selling is surely is also an option.

And if not selling; given the change in circumstances since we gave JM a four year, reportedly best part of half a million plus contract, and gave out other short term highly paid contracts, there has been a huge shift, including relegation fears at one point.
So surely caution at this stage is understandable.

It also makes some sense to try to understand revenue expectations before you make next years expenditure commitments.

The other issue is the management team . While personally I think VP was definitely the right move , especially ahead of an LOI management novice ( no matter how much potential, well meaning or pally with podcasters they are) I think we were right to start with a short term contract for an experienced LOI coach and assess it from there - .... but there's a 'cost' to it being short term.
If I was a player now, I'd be less inclined ( and therefore more expensive) to choose us as my next career move unless I understood the long term 'vision' from a manager - hopefully JM can do this - but after the circus at the start of the season it might be difficult.

Arguably, with everyone from jounros to ( non Dundalk ) amateurish podcasters rooting for our downfall and seeing us as an easy targets,,,, it'll be hard to get good ''player value'' until we improve on the field .. thankfully we seem to be on the way.

What is 100% right is , , , , we're far better off now than we were a few weeks ago. destroyed 5-1 to Bohs, loosing 3-1 to Waterford ... terrible aimless football - crises talks - protest outside the ground .....

The few on here that don't recognise that bill & co are capable of turning things around ( evidence = see Euopa leage grounp qualification last year - FAI cup last year ) , simply have an axe to grind - and want to drive p 6 out and have no plan post p6 .
I agree with a lot of what you say and for the sake of the club I hope you’re correct.
However, you’d think by now the board would have started to open up negotiations with the players they want to keep as 99% of them are out of work in 5 months so will prob secure deals elsewhere , VP included. The JM contract is a strange one, but maybe they’ll come to an agreement and pay him off? Is VP not going to bring in an assistant?
I suppose none of us know what’s going on but unfortunately it looks to me that things are going in the wrong direction

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Alrightourfella » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:21 pm

VP is only on a week to week contract.

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Re: 2021 Rumours | Transfers | Contract Renewals

Post by Louth4sam » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:18 pm

southerncomfort wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:42 am The few on here that don't recognise that bill & co are capable of turning things around ( evidence = see Euopa leage grounp qualification last year - FAI cup last year ) , simply have an axe to grind - and want to drive p 6 out and have no plan post p6 .
How is that evidence they are capable of turning things around? The bulk of the squad that qualified for Europa league in the most fortunate run of games any side will ever have to qualify for Europa league as well as the cup final were signed prior to Bill taking over. Peak6's record of signing players is pretty appalling. We also scraped qualifying for Europe this year and more likely than not won't qualify for Europe next year unless we win the cup again. How is that turning things around.

If you want "evidence", before Bill took over we haven't finished outside top two in the league since 2012. Where did we finish last year? Where are we likely to finish last year. We are a laughing stock. We have a wage budget which dwarves the rest of the league and we just re-hired a manager that we sacked last year as Bill thought he wasn't good enough. Bill is a liar he said he was taking a step back but still has input in every aspect of the football club. What was it he said in the interview with James Rogers, 50/60 hour weeks? He is destroying the club and that isn't grinding an axe it's stating facts.
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