Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:30 am

Louth4sam wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:22 am
niall_hearty2000 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:00 am At what stage will they say enough is enough and act? Perth was a penalty kick away from a clean sweep and got what 5-6 league games the following season and 1 round in the champions league. We are clueless in the league under the current regime.
That would mean a stubborn old man would need to admit he was wrong. Fillipo was a baffling appointment that nobody outside of Hulsizer could understand.
BTW I am not saying Vinny was the answer as clearly he wasn't. But he almost won the clean sweep but bombed in Europe, which shows that is all they care about. I am an athletics coach, coaching mostly juveniles from u7 up to u19, but I can't coach at any level unless I have my Athletics Ireland coaching badges, so what makes Peak 6 think a manager without the necessary badges can coach the champions of Ireland for 5 of the previous 7 seasons? It wouldn't happen in any American sporting industry and shouldn't happen here either.
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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Johnnybegood33 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:38 am

Spot on Breffni White , you are going to be a great addition . Any word on Garts .

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Richie87 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:59 am

niall_hearty2000 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:30 am
Louth4sam wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:22 am
niall_hearty2000 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:00 am At what stage will they say enough is enough and act? Perth was a penalty kick away from a clean sweep and got what 5-6 league games the following season and 1 round in the champions league. We are clueless in the league under the current regime.
That would mean a stubborn old man would need to admit he was wrong. Fillipo was a baffling appointment that nobody outside of Hulsizer could understand.
BTW I am not saying Vinny was the answer as clearly he wasn't. But he almost won the clean sweep but bombed in Europe, which shows that is all they care about. I am an athletics coach, coaching mostly juveniles from u7 up to u19, but I can't coach at any level unless I have my Athletics Ireland coaching badges, so what makes Peak 6 think a manager without the necessary badges can coach the champions of Ireland for 5 of the previous 7 seasons? It wouldn't happen in any American sporting industry and shouldn't happen here either.
There is plenty of examples of clubs hiring managers without the badges, and I'm not talking about in Ireland. Pirlo was appointed Juventus manager without the license. He was fast tracked onto the courses not to long after by the Italian football fed.

It's silly that there can't be an exception made for Filippo to get onto a course ,before 2022. He's involved with a team that played in EL and won FAI Cup.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Pepsi » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:24 am

Controversial question here lads........people keep telling us that Stanton and Sloggett are not performing in the team with Shields......my question is very simple....could the problem being Shields and not the others?? Could it be a case that Shields is trying too hard / doesnt understand / doesnt have the legs to do the job being asked of him?? Is it the reason the club have gone for Zahibo???
Clear as day that Boyle has lost pace and is not the player who left us, however I do wonder if Shields complicating things for himself in the middle of the pitch by trying too hard is effecting players alongside and behind him.

O´Kane should never have been in the starting 11 last night, looked like his teammates were affraid to pass to him in the first 30 minutes and Rovers tactics on him were very simply to kick him. Still cannot understand why Cammi and Mr Latvia started where they did, Cammi was doing good on the left....changing for the sake of changing or because Raivis played on the left for his country is how it looks. If JM is not in a positition to get a new trainer team in, we certainly need a centre half (one more injury and we have a problem there) and a solid keeper, time for him to get onto all these agents he claimed were contacting him when he got the job.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by White Horse » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:27 am

Pirlo was already enrolled on a Pro course and got his badge a month after being appointed. Hardly the same scenario as Giovagnoli.

My issue with the appointment of Giovagnoli is his lack of experience at coaching at senior level, never-mind a club with Europa league ambitions.

Giovagnoli's appointment will end in tears. I just hope it ends before he gets us relegated.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Fwats » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:32 am

Chris Shields remains a class act in my book. Wins so much for us. We don't seem to choose players around him that complement what he offers.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by White Horse » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:40 am

Pepsi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:24 am Controversial question here lads........people keep telling us that Stanton and Sloggett are not performing in the team with Shields......my question is very simple....could the problem being Shields and not the others?? Could it be a case that Shields is trying too hard / doesnt understand / doesnt have the legs to do the job being asked of him?? Is it the reason the club have gone for Zahibo???
Clear as day that Boyle has lost pace and is not the player who left us, however I do wonder if Shields complicating things for himself in the middle of the pitch by trying too hard is effecting players alongside and behind him.

O´Kane should never have been in the starting 11 last night, looked like his teammates were affraid to pass to him in the first 30 minutes and Rovers tactics on him were very simply to kick him. Still cannot understand why Cammi and Mr Latvia started where they did, Cammi was doing good on the left....changing for the sake of changing or because Raivis played on the left for his country is how it looks. If JM is not in a positition to get a new trainer team in, we certainly need a centre half (one more injury and we have a problem there) and a solid keeper, time for him to get onto all these agents he claimed were contacting him when he got the job.
Good questions.

Most of us remember Chris Shields as a headless chicken running all over the park in 2012. Kenny forced him to adopt a disciplined role in his teams and he became a really good player. Shields was being constantly told to hold position and what to do, both by Kenny and experienced pros playing along side of him, like Higgins and Finn. He still has that undisciplined urge in him that causes him to end isolated on the wing or trying to dribble past three players in deep positions. He needs a coach who understands his weaknesses and works on minimising their effect. He won't get this from Giovagnoli.

The one tactical change that worked well was the swapping of full backs for this game. Dummigan was roasted by Gannon in the Presidents Cup and they moved Raivis over there as they were confident that he, unlike Dummigan, would cope in a one to one situation with an attacking Gannon. This allowed Dundalk to keep Duffy high up the pitch and a potential threat to Rovers (which we didn't exploit enough).

O'Kane started because Junior was awful in the first two games, and O'Kane looked sharp against Sligo when he came on.

The three at the back won't work with two of the centre halfs having no pace. Both Boyle and Gatland, need the support of a full back. Four at the back suits our centre halfs much better.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by oldfogey » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:45 am

My God, we really are plumbing new depths in looking for someone to blame. How long before Stephen Kenny is denounced as the root of all our problems?

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:55 am

Pepsi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:24 am Controversial question here lads........people keep telling us that Stanton and Sloggett are not performing in the team with Shields......my question is very simple....could the problem being Shields and not the others?? Could it be a case that Shields is trying too hard / doesnt understand / doesnt have the legs to do the job being asked of him?? Is it the reason the club have gone for Zahibo???
Clear as day that Boyle has lost pace and is not the player who left us, however I do wonder if Shields complicating things for himself in the middle of the pitch by trying too hard is effecting players alongside and behind him.

O´Kane should never have been in the starting 11 last night, looked like his teammates were affraid to pass to him in the first 30 minutes and Rovers tactics on him were very simply to kick him. Still cannot understand why Cammi and Mr Latvia started where they did, Cammi was doing good on the left....changing for the sake of changing or because Raivis played on the left for his country is how it looks. If JM is not in a positition to get a new trainer team in, we certainly need a centre half (one more injury and we have a problem there) and a solid keeper, time for him to get onto all these agents he claimed were contacting him when he got the job.
Imho we aren't protecting Shields. He can't get across the mf line as quickly as he once could. He isn't as dynamic anymore. Still very effective but needs protecting. And we need an exceptional playmaker in there. And he simply isn't getting that protection in our current formation. The back 3 is killing us, especially on the counter as 2 of our 3 CBS aren't blessed with pace and the wingback are high up the pitch not coming back and leaving us wide open. But this is down to the manager insisting on playing this formation. Look covid messed the entire year up, but this 3 pre season friendlies balls up is coming home to roost. Surely we could have played even 2 or 3 first division sides.
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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:58 am

Pepsi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:24 am Controversial question here lads........people keep telling us that Stanton and Sloggett are not performing in the team with Shields......my question is very simple....could the problem being Shields and not the others?? Could it be a case that Shields is trying too hard / doesnt understand / doesnt have the legs to do the job being asked of him?? Is it the reason the club have gone for Zahibo???
Clear as day that Boyle has lost pace and is not the player who left us, however I do wonder if Shields complicating things for himself in the middle of the pitch by trying too hard is effecting players alongside and behind him.

O´Kane should never have been in the starting 11 last night, looked like his teammates were affraid to pass to him in the first 30 minutes and Rovers tactics on him were very simply to kick him. Still cannot understand why Cammi and Mr Latvia started where they did, Cammi was doing good on the left....changing for the sake of changing or because Raivis played on the left for his country is how it looks. If JM is not in a positition to get a new trainer team in, we certainly need a centre half (one more injury and we have a problem there) and a solid keeper, time for him to get onto all these agents he claimed were contacting him when he got the job.
Stanton did perform last night. He’s only played 2 and a half competitive games since October, give him a chance. Shields gave the assist for the goal. If he is not playing there is a huge hole in MF and we’ve seen this repeatedly over the years . Remember Murray and Fats are injured again and imagine we still had Flores. There were signs that the MF is improving and hopefully Zahibo will enhance it even more.

It’s a terrible start to the season I’m not denying that. However I don’t think FG is stupid. There’s obviously a big call or two to be made selection wise.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Pepsi » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:21 am

To the pre-season issue....could it have been a case that the club were planning to go away again, had friendlies lined up and Covid twarted it?? Were they hoping to be allowed to travel to a training camp in a bubble?? When it became clear that it wasnt going to be possible.....did they then realise they couldnt get the standard of opposition they needed and went with the 2 games??

Regarding speed, something else which I have considered.....are they maybe planning this season as a type of transistion period?? Would they be planning to scrape Europe again, maybe be willing to miss out, allowing another year to optimize the squad.....give them time to find a trainer / more players / get deals over the line. All in all, I have a feeling our squad is changing and I wouldnt be suprised next season to see some more established players being let go and replaced by younger/faster/internationals who can play the system they seem hell bent on playing. Very much following the American blueprint at Liverpool, where all youth teams play nearly the same system to ready players for the first team, something Klopp definately didnt do prior to joining Liverpool. Would also explain why our youth academy director is with the first team so much at the moment.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:54 am

Pepsi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:21 am To the pre-season issue....could it have been a case that the club were planning to go away again, had friendlies lined up and Covid twarted it?? Were they hoping to be allowed to travel to a training camp in a bubble?? When it became clear that it wasnt going to be possible.....did they then realise they couldnt get the standard of opposition they needed and went with the 2 games??

Regarding speed, something else which I have considered.....are they maybe planning this season as a type of transistion period?? Would they be planning to scrape Europe again, maybe be willing to miss out, allowing another year to optimize the squad.....give them time to find a trainer / more players / get deals over the line. All in all, I have a feeling our squad is changing and I wouldnt be suprised next season to see some more established players being let go and replaced by younger/faster/internationals who can play the system they seem hell bent on playing. Very much following the American blueprint at Liverpool, where all youth teams play nearly the same system to ready players for the first team, something Klopp definately didnt do prior to joining Liverpool. Would also explain why our youth academy director is with the first team so much at the moment.
Planning to go away? Seriously. We are in lockdown for the guts of 13 months. We knew there was no foreign travel. So not a hope that is the case. Seriously!! The level of opposition in pre season would not have mattered. It was about getting game time into the legs getting up to speed and trying out the system and formation shape of team to see if it would work. We are clearly off the pace so an additional 3 or 4 matches against first division sides would have sufficed
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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Pepsi » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:13 pm

American logic Niall...we are in the United States of Europe, GF was allowed to go home to Italy, club were allowed to travel to play and the internationals were taking place around Europe....
I know 100% that a Dutch club managed to get to Portugal during their winter break....condidition was the famous bubble.

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Richie87 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:39 pm

White Horse wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:27 am Pirlo was already enrolled on a Pro course and got his badge a month after being appointed. Hardly the same scenario as Giovagnoli.

My issue with the appointment of Giovagnoli is his lack of experience at coaching at senior level, never-mind a club with Europa league ambitions.

Giovagnoli's appointment will end in tears. I just hope it ends before he gets us relegated.
Relegated. Such hysterical talk. Dundalk fans have been spoilt with success and a few bad results and it's a meltdown.

The performance in second hall was good and on another day probably would have got something from the game. Dundalk I think will improve and show signs of that in next few games

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Re: Shamrock Rovers v Dundalk | League Series 3 | Friday 02 April 2021 ko 19.30

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:46 pm

niall_hearty2000 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:54 am
Pepsi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:21 am To the pre-season issue....could it have been a case that the club were planning to go away again, had friendlies lined up and Covid twarted it?? Were they hoping to be allowed to travel to a training camp in a bubble?? When it became clear that it wasnt going to be possible.....did they then realise they couldnt get the standard of opposition they needed and went with the 2 games??

Regarding speed, something else which I have considered.....are they maybe planning this season as a type of transistion period?? Would they be planning to scrape Europe again, maybe be willing to miss out, allowing another year to optimize the squad.....give them time to find a trainer / more players / get deals over the line. All in all, I have a feeling our squad is changing and I wouldnt be suprised next season to see some more established players being let go and replaced by younger/faster/internationals who can play the system they seem hell bent on playing. Very much following the American blueprint at Liverpool, where all youth teams play nearly the same system to ready players for the first team, something Klopp definately didnt do prior to joining Liverpool. Would also explain why our youth academy director is with the first team so much at the moment.
Planning to go away? Seriously. We are in lockdown for the guts of 13 months. We knew there was no foreign travel. So not a hope that is the case. Seriously!! The level of opposition in pre season would not have mattered. It was about getting game time into the legs getting up to speed and trying out the system and formation shape of team to see if it would work. We are clearly off the pace so an additional 3 or 4 matches against first division sides would have sufficed
Agree. The lack of preseason games was a blunder and the management in OP bare full responsibility for that. We are definitely undercooked. There were a lot of injuries carried over from the EL but we had enough bodies to have some sort of games. Maybe as JR suggested, they were afraid of getting a few hammerings and coming under pressure? We’ll look what’s happened now!
IF the management somehow improve things , we click and end up having a strong season and so remain in charge next year, I’d expect it not to happen again but as I said they are seeing the results of their actions now .

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