Fan Consultation

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BigChief
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Fan Consultation

Post by BigChief » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:53 pm

A few things stood out on the fan survey:
1. If money was no option would you rather a new stadium or renovate oriel .
2. If renovating/building should we aim for a stadium capable of hosting Europe league games or aim for a modern LOI standard stadium.
3. Would you be in favour of moving the Ultras to a new part of the ground (behind town goal in a new terrace).
4. Club might be scrapping the match night programmes in favour of a quarterly magazine.

I don’t want to read to much into these things but it gave me an impression that the new owners hope to do some sort of stadium work going forward.

Be great to get other peoples thoughts.

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Hull White » Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:41 am

1. 8000 all seater new stadium.
2. A stadium suitable to hold all Euro games.
3. An Ultras section somewhere in the new ground.
4. Matchday programme, if not broken don’t fix it!

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by oldfogey » Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:33 am

It would appear that some blocks of questions were driven by previous answers.

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:44 am

Hull White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:41 am 1. 8000 all seater new stadium.
2. A stadium suitable to hold all Euro games.
3. An Ultras section somewhere in the new ground.
4. Matchday programme, if not broken don’t fix it!
Think we’d loose a lot of the atmosphere and what makes the club the club if we move out of OP to a green field site with a new stadium HW. Longford have a great stadium but it’s in the middle of nowhere really

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Louth4sam » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:47 am

Martin Lawlor80 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:44 am
Hull White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:41 am 1. 8000 all seater new stadium.
2. A stadium suitable to hold all Euro games.
3. An Ultras section somewhere in the new ground.
4. Matchday programme, if not broken don’t fix it!
Think we’d loose a lot of the atmosphere and what makes the club the club if we move out of OP to a green field site with a new stadium HW. Longford have a great stadium but it’s in the middle of nowhere really
The site of a greenfield build is the key as well as amenities surrounding the stadium. We are hamstrung with what we can do with oriel and I don't think it would ever be possible to get it up to a level we can play in later rounds in Europe
"Absentee ownership doesn't work" - Jordan Gardner 21/12/2020

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Richie87 » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:48 am

Finn Harps new stadium will be in Stanorlar.. They'll still likely get a good support.

Bohemians had plans for a all seater stadium, but with inflation on material they are looking at alternative options ,like 3 sided terrace which they have in Germany. With the option to expand to 10k.

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Pepsi » Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:10 pm

Lads lets get the results before we start talking about what is possible. If you ask me it is all pie in the sky stuff asking fans if they want a greenfield site or a retrofit to Oriel, where fans should stand, sit or shit for that matter. The bigger question that has to be answered first is what finances are available and who is providing them or where do the owners think they will come from? To get a 8,000 seater stadium build to UEFA standard .... firstly Oriels site is out the window and someone will have to back the project to the tune of at least €25-35 million. Where is that money to be found?

It all looks for me to be a basic PR driven thing to be able to say, we asked and this is what fans want, don't complain. Oriel with a spring clean and a "bit" of work done to it seems to be the general wish! The majority of Dundalk fans will want to stay in Oriel, sure isn't it grand and handy to get to and sure we know nothing else. Likewise, match night programmes .... nice to have, but a cost factor which I doubt in a modern world makes much profit for the club if any, however again, sure we always had them so don't change it. A better option may be to ask fans if they would be willing to give up their match night programme in exchange for a quarterly digital newspaper (sell the green eco side of it) and link it to the season tickets or Patreon scheme (increase both by €15-20 per year to finance them). As for moving the singing section etc., show us plans for a ground development and then you can say if it is going to work ... as it stands moving them behind the goals would mean them standing exposed to the elements singing into the wind. The rest is dreamland.
If anyone was to ask me, and no one will .... I would suggest getting a nice tidy ground of approx. 3k capacity with potential to expand from the get go. Lets face it ... our average gates do not warrant a bigger ground nor would they go anyway towards the upkeep and/ or maintenance of such a development. What would you as a fan want more .... a packed house rocking every Friday night or a quarter filled ground that is next to impossible to get a buzz going in? As a player which would you be more inclined to want to play in?
Yes the consultation may have its benefits, however it is not going to solve an problems anytime soon. It is more a tick the boxes exercise and PR. (my opinion)

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Wexford White » Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm

Pepsi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:10 pm Lads lets get the results before we start talking about what is possible. If you ask me it is all pie in the sky stuff asking fans if they want a greenfield site or a retrofit to Oriel, where fans should stand, sit or shit for that matter. The bigger question that has to be answered first is what finances are available and who is providing them or where do the owners think they will come from? To get a 8,000 seater stadium build to UEFA standard .... firstly Oriels site is out the window and someone will have to back the project to the tune of at least €25-35 million. Where is that money to be found?

It all looks for me to be a basic PR driven thing to be able to say, we asked and this is what fans want, don't complain. Oriel with a spring clean and a "bit" of work done to it seems to be the general wish! The majority of Dundalk fans will want to stay in Oriel, sure isn't it grand and handy to get to and sure we know nothing else. Likewise, match night programmes .... nice to have, but a cost factor which I doubt in a modern world makes much profit for the club if any, however again, sure we always had them so don't change it. A better option may be to ask fans if they would be willing to give up their match night programme in exchange for a quarterly digital newspaper (sell the green eco side of it) and link it to the season tickets or Patreon scheme (increase both by €15-20 per year to finance them). As for moving the singing section etc., show us plans for a ground development and then you can say if it is going to work ... as it stands moving them behind the goals would mean them standing exposed to the elements singing into the wind. The rest is dreamland.
If anyone was to ask me, and no one will .... I would suggest getting a nice tidy ground of approx. 3k capacity with potential to expand from the get go. Lets face it ... our average gates do not warrant a bigger ground nor would they go anyway towards the upkeep and/ or maintenance of such a development. What would you as a fan want more .... a packed house rocking every Friday night or a quarter filled ground that is next to impossible to get a buzz going in? As a player which would you be more inclined to want to play in?
Yes the consultation may have its benefits, however it is not going to solve an problems anytime soon. It is more a tick the boxes exercise and PR. (my opinion)
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:29 pm

Wexford White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm
Pepsi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:10 pm Lads lets get the results before we start talking about what is possible. If you ask me it is all pie in the sky stuff asking fans if they want a greenfield site or a retrofit to Oriel, where fans should stand, sit or shit for that matter. The bigger question that has to be answered first is what finances are available and who is providing them or where do the owners think they will come from? To get a 8,000 seater stadium build to UEFA standard .... firstly Oriels site is out the window and someone will have to back the project to the tune of at least €25-35 million. Where is that money to be found?

It all looks for me to be a basic PR driven thing to be able to say, we asked and this is what fans want, don't complain. Oriel with a spring clean and a "bit" of work done to it seems to be the general wish! The majority of Dundalk fans will want to stay in Oriel, sure isn't it grand and handy to get to and sure we know nothing else. Likewise, match night programmes .... nice to have, but a cost factor which I doubt in a modern world makes much profit for the club if any, however again, sure we always had them so don't change it. A better option may be to ask fans if they would be willing to give up their match night programme in exchange for a quarterly digital newspaper (sell the green eco side of it) and link it to the season tickets or Patreon scheme (increase both by €15-20 per year to finance them). As for moving the singing section etc., show us plans for a ground development and then you can say if it is going to work ... as it stands moving them behind the goals would mean them standing exposed to the elements singing into the wind. The rest is dreamland.
If anyone was to ask me, and no one will .... I would suggest getting a nice tidy ground of approx. 3k capacity with potential to expand from the get go. Lets face it ... our average gates do not warrant a bigger ground nor would they go anyway towards the upkeep and/ or maintenance of such a development. What would you as a fan want more .... a packed house rocking every Friday night or a quarter filled ground that is next to impossible to get a buzz going in? As a player which would you be more inclined to want to play in?
Yes the consultation may have its benefits, however it is not going to solve an problems anytime soon. It is more a tick the boxes exercise and PR. (my opinion)
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
We also need to factor in car parking spaces and access roads and exits not merely if oriel could be refurbished to accommodate 8000 fans. To be honest if we are upgrading oriel or moving to a new green site, then imho we need to have a ground capable of hosting all rounds of Europe, ie group stages. Some might say this is few and far between, but we have made the groups twice in four years, and lost out on revenue for the club as we had to rent tallaght at a cost, along with lost revenue for the town.
Dundalk Fc. First Irish club to win points in group stages of a major European Competition.

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Pepsi » Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:22 pm

Wexford White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm
Pepsi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:10 pm Lads lets get the results before we start talking about what is possible. If you ask me it is all pie in the sky stuff asking fans if they want a greenfield site or a retrofit to Oriel, where fans should stand, sit or shit for that matter. The bigger question that has to be answered first is what finances are available and who is providing them or where do the owners think they will come from? To get a 8,000 seater stadium build to UEFA standard .... firstly Oriels site is out the window and someone will have to back the project to the tune of at least €25-35 million. Where is that money to be found?

It all looks for me to be a basic PR driven thing to be able to say, we asked and this is what fans want, don't complain. Oriel with a spring clean and a "bit" of work done to it seems to be the general wish! The majority of Dundalk fans will want to stay in Oriel, sure isn't it grand and handy to get to and sure we know nothing else. Likewise, match night programmes .... nice to have, but a cost factor which I doubt in a modern world makes much profit for the club if any, however again, sure we always had them so don't change it. A better option may be to ask fans if they would be willing to give up their match night programme in exchange for a quarterly digital newspaper (sell the green eco side of it) and link it to the season tickets or Patreon scheme (increase both by €15-20 per year to finance them). As for moving the singing section etc., show us plans for a ground development and then you can say if it is going to work ... as it stands moving them behind the goals would mean them standing exposed to the elements singing into the wind. The rest is dreamland.
If anyone was to ask me, and no one will .... I would suggest getting a nice tidy ground of approx. 3k capacity with potential to expand from the get go. Lets face it ... our average gates do not warrant a bigger ground nor would they go anyway towards the upkeep and/ or maintenance of such a development. What would you as a fan want more .... a packed house rocking every Friday night or a quarter filled ground that is next to impossible to get a buzz going in? As a player which would you be more inclined to want to play in?
Yes the consultation may have its benefits, however it is not going to solve an problems anytime soon. It is more a tick the boxes exercise and PR. (my opinion)
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
old Joes Park:
is it not owned by the Grammar School, who if I am correct are trying to sell it to fund their own planned ground.

Oriel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_stadium_categories
Take a look there for the basic spec inside the ground to meet UEFA Cat 4 and look at the footprint of the ground from above on google maps. Add to that, the ground would have to be accessible from all sides, if I am correctly informed that would mean fire engine / ambulance access to the full ground, which I am told is the reason why no stand can go behind the Carrick End of the ground as it is the emergency access route to the YDC. Again to meet this criteria we would have to buy behind Carrick Rd. end and the town end, most likely also the housing on the Carrick Road to increase access/prevent planning objections and then there is the small matter of 150 VIP parking spaces close to the ground, plus whatever LCC insist on being available to cater for the normal joe soap. It is not just a case of putting a roof on a terrace, a lick of paint and we have a Cat. 4 ground.

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Martin Lawlor80 » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:23 pm

Pepsi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:22 pm
Wexford White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm
Pepsi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:10 pm Lads lets get the results before we start talking about what is possible. If you ask me it is all pie in the sky stuff asking fans if they want a greenfield site or a retrofit to Oriel, where fans should stand, sit or shit for that matter. The bigger question that has to be answered first is what finances are available and who is providing them or where do the owners think they will come from? To get a 8,000 seater stadium build to UEFA standard .... firstly Oriels site is out the window and someone will have to back the project to the tune of at least €25-35 million. Where is that money to be found?

It all looks for me to be a basic PR driven thing to be able to say, we asked and this is what fans want, don't complain. Oriel with a spring clean and a "bit" of work done to it seems to be the general wish! The majority of Dundalk fans will want to stay in Oriel, sure isn't it grand and handy to get to and sure we know nothing else. Likewise, match night programmes .... nice to have, but a cost factor which I doubt in a modern world makes much profit for the club if any, however again, sure we always had them so don't change it. A better option may be to ask fans if they would be willing to give up their match night programme in exchange for a quarterly digital newspaper (sell the green eco side of it) and link it to the season tickets or Patreon scheme (increase both by €15-20 per year to finance them). As for moving the singing section etc., show us plans for a ground development and then you can say if it is going to work ... as it stands moving them behind the goals would mean them standing exposed to the elements singing into the wind. The rest is dreamland.
If anyone was to ask me, and no one will .... I would suggest getting a nice tidy ground of approx. 3k capacity with potential to expand from the get go. Lets face it ... our average gates do not warrant a bigger ground nor would they go anyway towards the upkeep and/ or maintenance of such a development. What would you as a fan want more .... a packed house rocking every Friday night or a quarter filled ground that is next to impossible to get a buzz going in? As a player which would you be more inclined to want to play in?
Yes the consultation may have its benefits, however it is not going to solve an problems anytime soon. It is more a tick the boxes exercise and PR. (my opinion)
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
old Joes Park:
is it not owned by the Grammar School, who if I am correct are trying to sell it to fund their own planned ground.

Oriel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_stadium_categories
Take a look there for the basic spec inside the ground to meet UEFA Cat 4 and look at the footprint of the ground from above on google maps. Add to that, the ground would have to be accessible from all sides, if I am correctly informed that would mean fire engine / ambulance access to the full ground, which I am told is the reason why no stand can go behind the Carrick End of the ground as it is the emergency access route to the YDC. Again to meet this criteria we would have to buy behind Carrick Rd. end and the town end, most likely also the housing on the Carrick Road to increase access/prevent planning objections and then there is the small matter of 150 VIP parking spaces close to the ground, plus whatever LCC insist on being available to cater for the normal joe soap. It is not just a case of putting a roof on a terrace, a lick of paint and we have a Cat. 4 ground.
Good points Pepsi.
Some guy had to be carted across the pitch and the game was stopped for 10 minutes tonight. He gave a thumbs up to to the stand on the way through

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by oldfogey » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:32 pm

Martin Lawlor80 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:23 pm
Pepsi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:22 pm
Wexford White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
old Joes Park:
is it not owned by the Grammar School, who if I am correct are trying to sell it to fund their own planned ground.

Oriel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_stadium_categories
Take a look there for the basic spec inside the ground to meet UEFA Cat 4 and look at the footprint of the ground from above on google maps. Add to that, the ground would have to be accessible from all sides, if I am correctly informed that would mean fire engine / ambulance access to the full ground, which I am told is the reason why no stand can go behind the Carrick End of the ground as it is the emergency access route to the YDC. Again to meet this criteria we would have to buy behind Carrick Rd. end and the town end, most likely also the housing on the Carrick Road to increase access/prevent planning objections and then there is the small matter of 150 VIP parking spaces close to the ground, plus whatever LCC insist on being available to cater for the normal joe soap. It is not just a case of putting a roof on a terrace, a lick of paint and we have a Cat. 4 ground.
Good points Pepsi.
Some guy had to be carted across the pitch and the game was stopped for 10 minutes tonight. He gave a thumbs up to to the stand on the way through
1. Joe's Park is family owned. They have had a number of applications turned down to build houses, yet still value it at development land prices. BETWEEN the Joe's and the back wall at the Town End there is a laneway leading to the old CIE goods yard on the Ardee Rd. You would need both properties.

2. I understand it was a lady who took ill (she was there with her grandchildren).

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Alanek » Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:47 pm

niall_hearty2000 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:29 pm
Wexford White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm
Pepsi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:10 pm Lads lets get the results before we start talking about what is possible. If you ask me it is all pie in the sky stuff asking fans if they want a greenfield site or a retrofit to Oriel, where fans should stand, sit or shit for that matter. The bigger question that has to be answered first is what finances are available and who is providing them or where do the owners think they will come from? To get a 8,000 seater stadium build to UEFA standard .... firstly Oriels site is out the window and someone will have to back the project to the tune of at least €25-35 million. Where is that money to be found?

It all looks for me to be a basic PR driven thing to be able to say, we asked and this is what fans want, don't complain. Oriel with a spring clean and a "bit" of work done to it seems to be the general wish! The majority of Dundalk fans will want to stay in Oriel, sure isn't it grand and handy to get to and sure we know nothing else. Likewise, match night programmes .... nice to have, but a cost factor which I doubt in a modern world makes much profit for the club if any, however again, sure we always had them so don't change it. A better option may be to ask fans if they would be willing to give up their match night programme in exchange for a quarterly digital newspaper (sell the green eco side of it) and link it to the season tickets or Patreon scheme (increase both by €15-20 per year to finance them). As for moving the singing section etc., show us plans for a ground development and then you can say if it is going to work ... as it stands moving them behind the goals would mean them standing exposed to the elements singing into the wind. The rest is dreamland.
If anyone was to ask me, and no one will .... I would suggest getting a nice tidy ground of approx. 3k capacity with potential to expand from the get go. Lets face it ... our average gates do not warrant a bigger ground nor would they go anyway towards the upkeep and/ or maintenance of such a development. What would you as a fan want more .... a packed house rocking every Friday night or a quarter filled ground that is next to impossible to get a buzz going in? As a player which would you be more inclined to want to play in?
Yes the consultation may have its benefits, however it is not going to solve an problems anytime soon. It is more a tick the boxes exercise and PR. (my opinion)
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
We also need to factor in car parking spaces and access roads and exits not merely if oriel could be refurbished to accommodate 8000 fans. To be honest if we are upgrading oriel or moving to a new green site, then imho we need to have a ground capable of hosting all rounds of Europe, ie group stages. Some might say this is few and far between, but we have made the groups twice in four years, and lost out on revenue for the club as we had to rent tallaght at a cost, along with lost revenue for the town.
Last nite was our first game in a few weeks,we are pushing for European football ,local derby ,and less than 3000 showed up ,
Only way we would need an 8000 seater stadium is if we get a couple of pre season games against United or Liverpool ,then the whole town would be out force .
Apart from that no need for it

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by niall_hearty2000 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:26 pm

Alanek wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:47 pm
niall_hearty2000 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:29 pm
Wexford White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
We also need to factor in car parking spaces and access roads and exits not merely if oriel could be refurbished to accommodate 8000 fans. To be honest if we are upgrading oriel or moving to a new green site, then imho we need to have a ground capable of hosting all rounds of Europe, ie group stages. Some might say this is few and far between, but we have made the groups twice in four years, and lost out on revenue for the club as we had to rent tallaght at a cost, along with lost revenue for the town.
Last nite was our first game in a few weeks,we are pushing for European football ,local derby ,and less than 3000 showed up ,
Only way we would need an 8000 seater stadium is if we get a couple of pre season games against United or Liverpool ,then the whole town would be out force .
Apart from that no need for it
So u are happy o play all of our European games in Tallaght?
Dundalk Fc. First Irish club to win points in group stages of a major European Competition.

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Re: Fan Consultation

Post by Louth4sam » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:37 pm

Alanek wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:47 pm
niall_hearty2000 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:29 pm
Wexford White wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm
Perhaps you are being practical - but you seem pessimistic to me. Do you really believe that Oriel could not be expanded to accommodate 8000? I think it could.
And a question: who owns the old Joes Park?
We also need to factor in car parking spaces and access roads and exits not merely if oriel could be refurbished to accommodate 8000 fans. To be honest if we are upgrading oriel or moving to a new green site, then imho we need to have a ground capable of hosting all rounds of Europe, ie group stages. Some might say this is few and far between, but we have made the groups twice in four years, and lost out on revenue for the club as we had to rent tallaght at a cost, along with lost revenue for the town.
Last nite was our first game in a few weeks,we are pushing for European football ,local derby ,and less than 3000 showed up ,
Only way we would need an 8000 seater stadium is if we get a couple of pre season games against United or Liverpool ,then the whole town would be out force .
Apart from that no need for it
As much as we hate it, when you go to Tallaght it has a big match feel about it. It rarely feels like that in Oriel. I think we have plateaued. We won't grow under our current guise in our current stadium. Very little has changed since the 80s when I started going although the football is far better. Ground is still in the same state and the crowds are the same
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