Flares and Fines

[mike]

Cork City were fined €50 as a result of flares discharged v Cobh Ramblers (29.03.08). If that is the reference its from 15 years ago.

What I would like to know is this, notwithstanding the fine, as it doesn't appear to be clear on the cost, with your No Pyro No Party signature are you suggesting its ok then to light flares at home games at Oriel Park?

If so are you or your group prepared to contribute or pay all of the fines? Even if its '€50' (I'm not sure it is but it might be), was there 4 last night ? Call it €200 then, so if all are adults that just over 13 admission fees (€15 per head) simply thrown in the bin. If its 4 per game for 18 home matches that's €3,600 in fines, (again its its 'only' 4 per game and if the fine is €50 per flare), simple maths that could be the budget for meals for 7 away games for the squad (25 at €20 a head) all going towards fines.

I'm not for one minute suggesting by the way you are responsible for this, I am more interested to know if you support lighting of flares in the shed and at any other Dundalk games?

[Martin Lawlor80]

Ah here ffs Mike I didn’t see that was from 2008! Thanks for pointing that out . Fcuk me, quoting someone from 15 years ago!!
Look for the avoidance of doubt I’ve just done a quick google search and found this :
https://m.independent.ie/regionals/argu ... 35641.html

Kevin Holland saying he expected a fine of € 500 from 2009. Also found another one from Rovers official account pleading with fans to stop :
“ The club has received another flare related fine from the FAI following last week's game in Dundalk. This is the third fine from away games this season which now totals €2,000.
With such fantastic away crowds supporting the team this season it is very regrettable that a small number of individuals engage in this activity which endangers fellow supporters and draws fines to the club that the club can ill afford.
The club calls on these individuals to desist from bringing flares/smoke bombs to games, home or away.
Any individual found with such items will be banned from Tallaght Stadium and will not be able to purchase away tickets from SRFC.”
That’s more recent , from May 2019. Works out at about €666 per match.
€50 quid, you’re having a laugh Shedside.
I’ll be generous and go with €500 fine per incident . I’ll update original post for the pats’ game.
That’s 33 paying supporters money in the bin. So glad we don’t need the money…

[Towelie]

I think it's fair to say that flairs do add to the matchday atmosphere and it's quite obvious that it fires up the players however the cons outweigh the pros in any case and the financial element is of course the main problem (safety is also paramount) I think also It's fair to say that this isn't a Dundalk issue exclusively and all the SSA being labeled as louts is unfair given the good work they do at creating the atmosphere with TIFO's, chanting, drums etc.

It would be great if clubs and the league could put the heads together and explore alternatives for ultras, I think Martin mentioned on one of the podcasts that they were looking at cold pyro which is being used in clubs in Scandinavia but nothing really came of that. Something like that would be ideal.

[Richie87]

They got a €1200 fine for the Drogheda game last season, but that was also because of fans on the pitch

https://www.lmfm.ie/news/sport/fine-iss ... erby-game/

[mike]

Seems fairly cut and dry case to me.

1/ Use Flares and consider this adds to pre match build up / Club gets fined thousands over the season - people who caused it - either don't care or just forget about it = club still gets fined thousands.

2/ Don't use flares, put energy into TIFO massive flag waving and get to the ground 30 mins before, transfer energy to team warming up and walk out = no fines / more money into club budget for day to day / player away game meals / 'boring' things like that.

[Martin Lawlor80]

I think it's fair to say that flairs do add to the matchday atmosphere and it's quite obvious that it fires up the players however the cons outweigh the pros in any case and the financial element is of course the main problem (safety is also paramount) I think also It's fair to say that this isn't a Dundalk issue exclusively and all the SSA being labeled as louts is unfair given the good work they do at creating the atmosphere with TIFO's, chanting, drums etc.

It would be great if clubs and the league could put the heads together and explore alternatives for ultras, I think Martin mentioned on one of the podcasts that they were looking at cold pyro which is being used in clubs in Scandinavia but nothing really came of that. Something like that would be ideal.

I don’t see where anybody on this thread has labelled a whole group as louts. It’s not helpful to say so if not true.
I also think it’s ridiculous that a group that has a Twitter account and is frequently retweeted by some of the supporters’ podcasts, burns the clubs money and hence makes other fans think twice about putting money into the club
BtW, I’ve been in Tallaght plenty of times where the fans ( I presume led by the SSA) have made plenty of noise and atmosphere without flares.

[Towelie]

I think it's fair to say that flairs do add to the matchday atmosphere and it's quite obvious that it fires up the players however the cons outweigh the pros in any case and the financial element is of course the main problem (safety is also paramount) I think also It's fair to say that this isn't a Dundalk issue exclusively and all the SSA being labeled as louts is unfair given the good work they do at creating the atmosphere with TIFO's, chanting, drums etc.

It would be great if clubs and the league could put the heads together and explore alternatives for ultras, I think Martin mentioned on one of the podcasts that they were looking at cold pyro which is being used in clubs in Scandinavia but nothing really came of that. Something like that would be ideal.

I don’t see where anybody on this thread has labelled a whole group as louts. It’s not helpful to say so if not true.
I also think it’s ridiculous that a group that has a Twitter account and is frequently retweeted by some of the supporters’ podcasts, burns the clubs money and hence makes other fans think twice about putting money into the club
BtW, I’ve been in Tallaght plenty of times where the fans ( I presume led by the SSA) have made plenty of noise and atmosphere without flares.

No, not explicitly on this thread but there seems to be a fair bit of ill will towards the group on other threads (rightly or wrongly). I don't think the SSA are above criticism either, I personally think they could do more with the money raised via the gofundme to create more varied TIFO's and as Mike said, small flags rather than have the shedside be bare with one or two flags.

I think that writing a post every time a flare is lit is a fairly fruitless endeavor. It's the psychological equivalent of walking through a carpark full of rakes and getting thwacked in the head with the handle. We've been having these discussions for years and nothing will change because the young lads lighting flares rarely, if ever, read forums like this. It's like shouting into the void.

Now if it was a case that someone wanted to keep track of the fines over the year, then that I think would be more worthwhile.

[Richie87]

They wouldn't have to read the forum. The club could just issue a firm statement like Derry City with lifetime bans for anyone with flares. That might be drastic,but throwing away money needlessly in a ground that could do with finance seems pointless.

[Pepsi]

Lads the whole matter with flairs could be highlighted and put to bed if the club grew a set and listened to what was it ... 69% of the fans who replied to the survey. Very simple thing is ...
1. The club announces what amount was lost to flairs season for season over the course of the last 3-4 seasons.
2. They put out a statement stating flairs will result in lifetime bans.
3. They implement the whole thing

It cannot be accepted that the figureheads of the SSA go public and say it adds to the event, players love it (and tell them that) etc. Surely it has to be known to these lads that they are looked up to by the others younger members who try to impress them etc. Surely, the money lost in fines per year would go a long way to cleaning up Oriel, paying for a few bus trips or meals for underage teams ... or god forbid maybe even allow someone to take a few courses with FAI to get qualifications. Sometimes however, egos are more important that the club it seems.

[ShedSide03]

Lads the whole matter with flairs could be highlighted and put to bed if the club grew a set and listened to what was it ... 69% of the fans who replied to the survey. Very simple thing is ...
1. The club announces what amount was lost to flairs season for season over the course of the last 3-4 seasons.
2. They put out a statement stating flairs will result in lifetime bans.
3. They implement the whole thing

It cannot be accepted that the figureheads of the SSA go public and say it adds to the event, players love it (and tell them that) etc. Surely it has to be known to these lads that they are looked up to by the others younger members who try to impress them etc. Surely, the money lost in fines per year would go a long way to cleaning up Oriel, paying for a few bus trips or meals for underage teams ... or god forbid maybe even allow someone to take a few courses with FAI to get qualifications. Sometimes however, egos are more important that the club it seems.

It sounds great in theory, 'the money lost in fines per year would go a long way to cleaning up Oriel, paying for a few bus trips or meals for underage teams', but realistically its going right into the owners pockets. They made it clear there is no plans to invest in the squad, the ground, the academy or any of these great ideas. I'd be happy enough to pay for fines if I knew it was going into one of these projects and not into a couple of multimillionaires pockets.

[Pepsi]

Lads the whole matter with flairs could be highlighted and put to bed if the club grew a set and listened to what was it ... 69% of the fans who replied to the survey. Very simple thing is ...
1. The club announces what amount was lost to flairs season for season over the course of the last 3-4 seasons.
2. They put out a statement stating flairs will result in lifetime bans.
3. They implement the whole thing

It cannot be accepted that the figureheads of the SSA go public and say it adds to the event, players love it (and tell them that) etc. Surely it has to be known to these lads that they are looked up to by the others younger members who try to impress them etc. Surely, the money lost in fines per year would go a long way to cleaning up Oriel, paying for a few bus trips or meals for underage teams ... or god forbid maybe even allow someone to take a few courses with FAI to get qualifications. Sometimes however, egos are more important that the club it seems.

It sounds great in theory, 'the money lost in fines per year would go a long way to cleaning up Oriel, paying for a few bus trips or meals for underage teams', but realistically its going right into the owners pockets. They made it clear there is no plans to invest in the squad, the ground, the academy or any of these great ideas. I'd be happy enough to pay for fines if I knew it was going into one of these projects and not into a couple of multimillionaires pockets.

I have to say, I cannot accept your reasoning, correct me if I am wrong. You feel, flairs are OK and the fines are acceptable because the owners are millionaires and they could potentially make money on the project if it wasn't for fines as they are not investing more than they have or the club generates. So you feel as owners that should pay into the business on a regular basis and are not entitled to try to break even or to generate a little more profit to invest? Maybe give a part time job to one of your mates in the bar or looking after the pitch etc.

Here are a few questions for you based on your theory .....
Members of the SSA class themselves as fans of Dundalk FC? Our Ultras to put it in football terms
They want facilities to be proud of?
They want the best players on the pitch, a team to be proud of?
They want players to have access to the best medical facilities?
They want local owners, couldn't get rid of Peak6 quick enough?

Why should our current owners invest one cent in the club if the average member of the SSA has the same attitude as you? Surely they could give the everyday problems and responsibilities to someone else alá Bill. They could spend more time concentrating on their own companies and families. AC could spend the money on his kids, the SS lads could fly around the world watching any team they want. However, no they decided to try and make a go of Fundalk FC ... the least the fans (Ultras) can do is get behind them and support them as owners. Every single fine is like sticking 2 finger up at the club and other fans. If I was the owners, I would be asking myself why bother reading what you just wrote.

[superman]

are people only against flares because they incur fines?

[Richie87]

I'd say its more to then that. . There has been incidents in other countries where flare have exploded. A game in Turkey a few months ago turned into carnage

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... l-hospital

Russian goalie hit by a flare a few years ago https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... t-by-flare

Peter Cherrie was nearly on the receiving end of one a few years ago

[Wexford White]

are people only against flares because they incur fines?

Good point. Serious injury is inevitable.
What puzzles me - and I've said this before - is why these morons are not dealt with. They are easily identifiable.

[niall_hearty2000]

are people only against flares because they incur fines?

No they are dangerous in the hands of people who could care less for the safety or wellbeing of those around them.