2023 Season General Thread

Discuss any news,views and opinions on Dundalk F.C.

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Pepsi
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by Pepsi »

Louth4sam wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:56 am
Dundalk10 wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:43 pm
colymull wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:14 pm Instead of paying out 6 figure sums on Zahibo, who offered us absolutely nothing, they could have spent that money on some ground improvements. That may have enhanced their legacy...slightly!
Something that is conveniently forgotten about Peak 6 is they are the only owners to spend any sort of decent money on facilities.
They spent thousands on the new gym, changing rooms, etc in the YDC.
Despite getting nearly 7 million in European money in 2016, not one cent was put by the then owners to the ground, the didn't even fix the the puddle behind the town end goals, that had to wait until peak 6.

The club is currently in a very bad place financially.
Someone outside the club is paying for Horgan, and if there isn't major outside investment soon the club is in big trouble.
How much was this forced due to the 70% on wages rule?
I have either being dreaming or I read/heard somewhere that a number of DFC players/staff are also on SS books as consultants/employees. I am sure they have good reason for it. I suppose their is a deal with Fyffes with SOD, either privately or with the club as every interview he does he has the Fyffes logo on his hat.
More worrying is the fact that the owners don't seem to have the financial clout/desire to compete with clubs around us. It is as if we have stopped developing whilst others are enjoying investment and prosperity. We can say what we want about Peak6 ... when they walked away they took the hit for all Bills madcap signings and left money in the bank to cover a large part of what was open.
What state will our current owners leave us in or to whom will they pass us onto if they loose interest? For all their football contacts, they certainly seem to be having problems getting the right investment be that from an individual or as part of a multi club group.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by Louth4sam »

Pepsi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:27 pm We can say what we want about Peak6 ... when they walked away they took the hit for all Bills madcap signings and left money in the bank to cover a large part of what was open.
Was very reliably informed that what was left by Peak6 didn't come close to plugging what was owed.

I'm as frustrated as anyone about the lack of investment compared to the clubs around us but I genuinely feel that we are far more stable as a club now than we were going under Bill and Peak6. If it's true that players can be partly paid by StatSports that can be a good thing and might be attractive to players coming into their late 20s if there is a job with StatSports part time with their DFC role and full-time when they retire. I would love to know what StatSports plans are as looking from the outside they don't seem to be leveraging their contacts within the game as much as I hoped and was excited about when they took ownership. They have link-ups with Arsenal, has a partnership been explored? Then you have Kane, Sterling, Maguire, Oxlade-Chamberlin and Foden as investors in StatSports. I know it's off the wall, but a couple of weeks wages from each of them and we'd be very competitive within the league. But seriously, I feel that there is something holding the StatsSports lads back, they still seem to be raising capital from VCs and Angel investors, if they ever go public or a major player buys them out we might reap the whirlwind. Until then I'd imagine we will be living within our means for the foreseeable future but have relative stability.
"Absentee ownership doesn't work" - Jordan Gardner 21/12/2020
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by TrevDaRev2 »

Louth4sam wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:53 pm
Pepsi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:27 pm We can say what we want about Peak6 ... when they walked away they took the hit for all Bills madcap signings and left money in the bank to cover a large part of what was open.
Was very reliably informed that what was left by Peak6 didn't come close to plugging what was owed.

I'm as frustrated as anyone about the lack of investment compared to the clubs around us but I genuinely feel that we are far more stable as a club now than we were going under Bill and Peak6. If it's true that players can be partly paid by StatSports that can be a good thing and might be attractive to players coming into their late 20s if there is a job with StatSports part time with their DFC role and full-time when they retire. I would love to know what StatSports plans are as looking from the outside they don't seem to be leveraging their contacts within the game as much as I hoped and was excited about when they took ownership. They have link-ups with Arsenal, has a partnership been explored? Then you have Kane, Sterling, Maguire, Oxlade-Chamberlin and Foden as investors in StatSports. I know it's off the wall, but a couple of weeks wages from each of them and we'd be very competitive within the league. But seriously, I feel that there is something holding the StatsSports lads back, they still seem to be raising capital from VCs and Angel investors, if they ever go public or a major player buys them out we might reap the whirlwind. Until then I'd imagine we will be living within our means for the foreseeable future but have relative stability.
To say that we are far more stable isn't exactly true. A feel of things being ok isn't a proper measure. Assuming what you say about part of players wages being paid off-balance sheet is correct then we're in a worse state than the books reflect, which is already grim enough reading. Ok you've European money to come in which softens the blow, but the prospect of none next year wouldnt fill me with optimism

"With that in mind, the release of Dundalk FC’s abridged financial statements for the year ending December 31, 2022, makes for some interesting – and slightly concerning – reading. A loss of almost €500,000 was reported, down from a profit of €905,863 the year before when the club was handed over to Seán O’Connor, Alan Clarke and Andy Connolly by PEAK6. The decline in finances was reflected by the cash in bank figure which fell from €1,454,703 at the end of November 2021 to €424,844 as of December 31 last – a drop of €1,029,859. This is also dramatically down on the €3,131,890 the club had in the bank in their 2020 accounts. You don’t need to be an accountant to work out that finances heading in that direction can only be sustained for so long before either new investment is needed, a dramatic turnaround in how things are ran is required, a sale is made or the sh1t hits the fan." - https://www.independent.ie/regionals/lo ... 73866.html?

Talk of outside investment coming in is also fanciful in my opinion as there's about 10 clubs (premier and first) if not more that would be more attractive to outside investors. Seems to have gone quiet there too but I remain hopeful(ish). Couple that with relatively poor crowds and gate receipts being the bread and butter I really fear that darker days lie ahead. I know I'll probably be slaughtered for pointing out the obvious but its difficult to be optimistic. The winning or losing of the FAI Cup this season could prove huge for whatever comes next
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by Pepsi »

TrevDaRev2 wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:19 am
Louth4sam wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:53 pm
Pepsi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:27 pm We can say what we want about Peak6 ... when they walked away they took the hit for all Bills madcap signings and left money in the bank to cover a large part of what was open.
Was very reliably informed that what was left by Peak6 didn't come close to plugging what was owed.

I'm as frustrated as anyone about the lack of investment compared to the clubs around us but I genuinely feel that we are far more stable as a club now than we were going under Bill and Peak6. If it's true that players can be partly paid by StatSports that can be a good thing and might be attractive to players coming into their late 20s if there is a job with StatSports part time with their DFC role and full-time when they retire. I would love to know what StatSports plans are as looking from the outside they don't seem to be leveraging their contacts within the game as much as I hoped and was excited about when they took ownership. They have link-ups with Arsenal, has a partnership been explored? Then you have Kane, Sterling, Maguire, Oxlade-Chamberlin and Foden as investors in StatSports. I know it's off the wall, but a couple of weeks wages from each of them and we'd be very competitive within the league. But seriously, I feel that there is something holding the StatsSports lads back, they still seem to be raising capital from VCs and Angel investors, if they ever go public or a major player buys them out we might reap the whirlwind. Until then I'd imagine we will be living within our means for the foreseeable future but have relative stability.
To say that we are far more stable isn't exactly true. A feel of things being ok isn't a proper measure. Assuming what you say about part of players wages being paid off-balance sheet is correct then we're in a worse state than the books reflect, which is already grim enough reading. Ok you've European money to come in which softens the blow, but the prospect of none next year wouldnt fill me with optimism

"With that in mind, the release of Dundalk FC’s abridged financial statements for the year ending December 31, 2022, makes for some interesting – and slightly concerning – reading. A loss of almost €500,000 was reported, down from a profit of €905,863 the year before when the club was handed over to Seán O’Connor, Alan Clarke and Andy Connolly by PEAK6. The decline in finances was reflected by the cash in bank figure which fell from €1,454,703 at the end of November 2021 to €424,844 as of December 31 last – a drop of €1,029,859. This is also dramatically down on the €3,131,890 the club had in the bank in their 2020 accounts. You don’t need to be an accountant to work out that finances heading in that direction can only be sustained for so long before either new investment is needed, a dramatic turnaround in how things are ran is required, a sale is made or the sh1t hits the fan." - https://www.independent.ie/regionals/lo ... 73866.html?

Talk of outside investment coming in is also fanciful in my opinion as there's about 10 clubs (premier and first) if not more that would be more attractive to outside investors. Seems to have gone quiet there too but I remain hopeful(ish). Couple that with relatively poor crowds and gate receipts being the bread and butter I really fear that darker days lie ahead. I know I'll probably be slaughtered for pointing out the obvious but its difficult to be optimistic. The winning or losing of the FAI Cup this season could prove huge for whatever comes next
Well said Trev .. it is time for fans to start taking their head of the sand and to face reality. If our current owners do not find wealthy investors, we will be in serious trouble. The part in all of this that is missing for me is the (public) lack of marketing, it looks like the owners are doing Jack Shit to make the club more attractive to potential investors.
Anyone who comes in will need to have very deep pockets and a willingness to spend. Oriel needs cosmetic work done to it before we even look at rebuilds. The pitch needs to be redone, the rest needs a good few shots of Botox to make it look better than it is. Then there is the question of, if the club revert to grass, where do the Youths/Ladies play, where to the different teams train? If the plan is to finance it all privately, then the new investor will have to take approx. €3-5 million with them to do the first phase of infrastructure. Then we have the question of propping up budgets etc. ... looking a grounds .... it is a bottomless pit with an average gate of 2-3k every two weeks.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by TrevDaRev2 »

....
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by TrevDaRev2 »

Pepsi wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:21 pm
TrevDaRev2 wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:19 am
Louth4sam wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:53 pm

Was very reliably informed that what was left by Peak6 didn't come close to plugging what was owed.

I'm as frustrated as anyone about the lack of investment compared to the clubs around us but I genuinely feel that we are far more stable as a club now than we were going under Bill and Peak6. If it's true that players can be partly paid by StatSports that can be a good thing and might be attractive to players coming into their late 20s if there is a job with StatSports part time with their DFC role and full-time when they retire. I would love to know what StatSports plans are as looking from the outside they don't seem to be leveraging their contacts within the game as much as I hoped and was excited about when they took ownership. They have link-ups with Arsenal, has a partnership been explored? Then you have Kane, Sterling, Maguire, Oxlade-Chamberlin and Foden as investors in StatSports. I know it's off the wall, but a couple of weeks wages from each of them and we'd be very competitive within the league. But seriously, I feel that there is something holding the StatsSports lads back, they still seem to be raising capital from VCs and Angel investors, if they ever go public or a major player buys them out we might reap the whirlwind. Until then I'd imagine we will be living within our means for the foreseeable future but have relative stability.
To say that we are far more stable isn't exactly true. A feel of things being ok isn't a proper measure. Assuming what you say about part of players wages being paid off-balance sheet is correct then we're in a worse state than the books reflect, which is already grim enough reading. Ok you've European money to come in which softens the blow, but the prospect of none next year wouldnt fill me with optimism

"With that in mind, the release of Dundalk FC’s abridged financial statements for the year ending December 31, 2022, makes for some interesting – and slightly concerning – reading. A loss of almost €500,000 was reported, down from a profit of €905,863 the year before when the club was handed over to Seán O’Connor, Alan Clarke and Andy Connolly by PEAK6. The decline in finances was reflected by the cash in bank figure which fell from €1,454,703 at the end of November 2021 to €424,844 as of December 31 last – a drop of €1,029,859. This is also dramatically down on the €3,131,890 the club had in the bank in their 2020 accounts. You don’t need to be an accountant to work out that finances heading in that direction can only be sustained for so long before either new investment is needed, a dramatic turnaround in how things are ran is required, a sale is made or the sh1t hits the fan." - https://www.independent.ie/regionals/lo ... 73866.html?

Talk of outside investment coming in is also fanciful in my opinion as there's about 10 clubs (premier and first) if not more that would be more attractive to outside investors. Seems to have gone quiet there too but I remain hopeful(ish). Couple that with relatively poor crowds and gate receipts being the bread and butter I really fear that darker days lie ahead. I know I'll probably be slaughtered for pointing out the obvious but its difficult to be optimistic. The winning or losing of the FAI Cup this season could prove huge for whatever comes next
Well said Trev .. it is time for fans to start taking their head of the sand and to face reality. If our current owners do not find wealthy investors, we will be in serious trouble. The part in all of this that is missing for me is the (public) lack of marketing, it looks like the owners are doing Jack Shit to make the club more attractive to potential investors.
Anyone who comes in will need to have very deep pockets and a willingness to spend. Oriel needs cosmetic work done to it before we even look at rebuilds. The pitch needs to be redone, the rest needs a good few shots of Botox to make it look better than it is. Then there is the question of, if the club revert to grass, where do the Youths/Ladies play, where to the different teams train? If the plan is to finance it all privately, then the new investor will have to take approx. €3-5 million with them to do the first phase of infrastructure. Then we have the question of propping up budgets etc. ... looking a grounds .... it is a bottomless pit with an average gate of 2-3k every two weeks.
This is it, the amount of investment required to bring infrastructure up to a standard that it notably different is eye watering amounts with little to no guarantee of a return. And promise of putting down a grass pitch is very difficult because you've to then limit the traffic on it. Ye it feels like there's an element of just keep things ticking over or something which isn't a great look for potential sponsors for next year. You've 3 home games left and one of those is a monday night. As the nights get darker and colder and it clicks with people we haven't a hope in making Europe through the league they'll start voting with their feet and crowds will drop further. Only chink of light the FAI cup. Could be a long winter
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by dundalkfc1903 »

In terms of the pitch, synthetic surfaces are to be banned, so will be forced to return to grass.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by TrevDaRev2 »

dundalkfc1903 wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:10 pm In terms of the pitch, synthetic surfaces are to be banned, so will be forced to return to grass.
A while away yet though. Pitch in Oriel is goosed but doubt they'll replaced it until they have to which will be 2025 at the very earliest which I suppose gives you time to find an alternative training base but that alls comes with the caveat that you've a medium term plan in place in the first place which I'm not sure even exists
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by Pepsi »

See the team were down training in Clancy Park this morning. Sad state of affairs when local clubs have a better surface to train on than a professional team who just played in Europe. There is a feeling of biting off more than you can chew when you look at our current owners.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by mike »

Is it any different in using the Grammar School owned one behind Oriel? Plus Clancy Park was used in prep for EL group stage 2020, its a brilliant surface and more than decent of QC to faciltiate the club.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by Pepsi »

mike wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:08 pm Is it any different in using the Grammar School owned one behind Oriel? Plus Clancy Park was used in prep for EL group stage 2020, its a brilliant surface and more than decent of QC to faciltiate the club.
Thats my point, a local amateur club have a better pitch than we do, be it training or match night. Should be the other way around with the money being fired around. Regardless of who the clubs owners are, we dont have the basics right and no one is doing anything to improve it. We have owners who are very silent, they are not communicating with anyone and fans dont know jack shite about what state the club is really in or where the owners want to take it. Have they ever been asked or explained what the club paid SS over €100k for on the last set of books? A lot of open questions ... but looking in today it looks very bleak unless there is an investor with very deep pockets. Our attendances are shite and are only being propped up by away fans, why would anyone invest in the club. Peak6 were run out of town, who would come in to replace them knowing there is a good chance that fans would turn against them if they do not employ the right people and spend money on the expected signings.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by mike »

Nothing to show from 2 x EL group stages in cash reserves (apart from what was left at end of 2022 and now prob all spent) is depressing.

Unless SS have a plan, its hard to be positive for a return to competitive challenging anytime soon, as we clearly don't have a rainy day fund.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by TrevDaRev2 »

If off the field stuff continues as is well be in the first division before we know it
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by niall_hearty2000 »

Questions have to be asked of their agenda and why they came onboard in the first place.
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Re: 2023 Season General Thread

Post by Dundalk10 »

Ok lads can we meet at 9am outside tesco tomorrow to organise the bag packing at the checkouts to get a few euros together for next year?
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